"Service not included"

[Oobis]

Am I completely wrong in my thoughts on this? I really, really hate seeing this printed on bills in restaurants (in this country), as as far as I know, it is completely untrue. Unless the restaurant is contracting self employed waiting staff, in what possible way is the cost of the service not included in the bill? And if it is not, how am I to know that the waiting staff are receiving the full amount I choose to pay them?

I'm not averse to tipping staff for good service at my discretion, but I confess that where they claim service to not be included in the prices they have calculated they need to charge to cover their costs and make a profit, I choose not to - I don't like this way of demanding tips. I've not worked in hospitality for many years, so if I am completely wrong and I am sending these poor, destitute staff home penniless, I shall change my ways. Or at least eat at establishments who have the decency to pay their staff.

Here's an example of why paying a 'service charge' on a bill is bad:
Friend of mine worked in a very naice restaurant that included a service charge on the bill. The customers would pay it thinking they were tipping the waiting staff, but in actual fact the service charge went straight to the owners, and the waiting staff were not allowed to tell the customer this unless the customer asked where the money went. The only extra money the staff saw was from cash tips.
So because of that, I now ask for the charge to be removed and I tip in cash.

also why should a large party pay a service charge?

Because serving 15 people spread over 6 tables gives you leeway in terms of timings and kitchen capacity. Serving 15 people at the same time is a different kettle of fish.

Of course, if your party of 15 gets served at the same rate 6 individual tables might be served (10 mins between the 2nd and 3rd dish, waiting an hour for drinks), then ask to see the manager and have it removed.

Those of you who don't like to tip should move to Japan. No only is tipping not in general practice its considered a bit weird/rude. We left some money on the table after a meal and as we were leaving the waiter returned it to us as we'd 'left it behind'.

MaidofStars, I like your approach. Would lead to a stronger personal service culture, and great serving staff feeling appreciated and being paid properly.

As long as it didn't lead to the North Amercican cheesy service style that you sometimes see, that often feels so lacking in authenticity or true care.

Maybe as a start UK establishments should should simply raise their prices, then pay their people properly, and let tipping be entirely discretionary.

I can assure you all that in any reputable establishment "tip" and "service charge" are interchangeable. Many places add it on as a matter of course so that when trying to recruit new staff they can intimate at higher earnings. For large tables it is usually added as standard in most restaurants because larger tables are a logistical nightmare that require a lot more work i.e. 3 tables of 4 are far easier to serve than 1 table of 12. All monies given to staff have to go through the tax man and be declaredd or waiting staff and the establishment risk massive fines. I would say that 85 percent of british people tip. I would however always check what the company does with them as a few unscrupulous bosses will take from the tips to line their own pockets.

Well thanks for your thoughts and replies all, very interesting! I now know they are not claiming that the staff will not be paid if I do not tip/pay service charge.

I shall continue to tip (in cash) where I think the service warrants it, but I shall not begin to routinely tip in a country where I know staff are paid minimum wage anyway if I don't feel they deserve it.

I still don't like the "service not included". Other countries have their own ways, which is fine. Here, we pay our staff and charge prices which cover costs (including laundry!) and hopefully make profit too.

Jimmy Spices annoys me to the point I now won't go - charge £1 per person service charge (in tiny print) and its self service!

woodhill I don't get your post at all. You ALWAYS tip in the UK, where waiting staff are all on at least minimum wage and often more than low-paid staff in other industries, but you object to tipping in the US where servers can get about $2 an hour in wages?

raawwhh Tips v service charges

And another

No I don't object and we always tip in the USA but I hated the way it was upfront in the restaurant in the hotel in LV and it was expensive to start with. My dh went back in February and the prices had dropped in the restaurants.

It is not the tourists fault that the wages are so low for the waiting staff there.

While I think MaidofStars approach is a really good one which could lead much better service, I think raawwhh is right around how it is done in high end UK places. E.g. In central London's top restaurants (just coz I happen to live here) I don't know anyone who would tip on top of the service charges unless they had received something WAY over and above simply good service. They just pay the 12.5%. But I still do not think it is the best approach for customers or staff.

When they say service not included they mean tip not included (in the UK at least). It has no bearing on staff pay at all and that's not what it's referring to

I think is has been all-but-eliminated now after outcry, but a few years ago it was very common for service charge to make up wages in chain restaurants.

If you worked 3 hours and the total service charge collected on those tables came to £30, that would be your wages for the shift.
If it was a quiet day and the tables you served only produced a service charge of £10, the restaurant would top it up so you received the minimum wage for those 3 hours, but on busy days, your service charge was all you'd get.

Places like Pizza Express used to operate like this...

I don't eat out much, because I can't afford to since redundancy. On the odd occasion that i take dc for a treat to pizza express etc, I object to being expected to tip/given a receipt stating 'service not included' this may have been appropriate years ago, before minimum wage, but now waiting staff are paid the same as shop staff etc, none of whom get tips.

In the past waiting staff earned very little in wages as restaurants knew they got tips, this isn't the case now (or they are no different to the rest of us anyway).

No, I don't tip and pay the service charge at the same time, it's one or the other. I don't see a service charge added very often - only for large groups - though I have noticed it a bit more in London lately (don't eat there very often)

I feel like I am living on a different planet to everyone else. Seriously, everyone I have ever eat out with always tips 10% when there is table service. From the Fat Duck to Pizza Express and everything between. Never known anyone suggest not to. Except when maybe once every few years we will have dreadful service.

Do I just mix with a completely different group of people to everyone else here?

Assuming that you should tip every time you eat at a restaurant is just ridiculous, and it completely defeats the point of tips.

Tips in my mind are for service that goes beyond reasonable expectation. If I get particularly good service, I leave a tip. If the bare minimum is done by a server, then they've done nothing to earn a tip and therefore don't get one. It's that easy.

Done a bit of googling. Both survey results and guidebooks suggest that 80-90% of people in the UK always tip in restaurants (unless self-service etc) and the average tip is about 10%. So it's not just me! Clearly a non-representative sample on this thread.

I always ask the waiter (or waitress) if I hey actually get the service if I pay on cc. If they don't then I tip with cash. I once had a £35 service charge (a large table of people) removed from the bill because the waiter told me that he was told to say they got it but it actually went into a pot to cover sick pay and holiday pay (wtaf!) the manager went mad when I removed it demanding to know what was wrong with their service. The small print said it was optional though so i could. I slipped the waiter the cash when the manager wasn't looking. He nearly died of excitement lol - he promised to share it with kitchen staff so I hope he did!

I've never tipped in the UK
I didn't know this was a 'thing' ???

It isn't. Tipping in the UK is COMPLETELY up to the individual and no way law at all. You want to tip, tip. If you don't, you don't.

Do I just mix with a completely different group of people to everyone else here?

I'm like you. I always tip (unless something catastrophic has happened, which it never has). I've returned to a restaurant the next day to leave a tip, after a bill/loo visit/we-both-thought-the-other-had-left-a-tip mix up. I've supplemented weedy tips left by the bill payer (that's probably not cool, although they've never known).

At some point, the % starts to add up to a crazy amount though. For example, we recently had cause to tip £100, which was slightly disproportionate to the amount of work our waitress had to do. It takes the same effort to open a £20 bottle as it does to open a £50 bottle; she brought the same number of dishes to our table. So she benefitted from us pushing the boat out and ordering expensively, but she had very little (if any) extra work to do than if we'd ordered cheaply.

I always ask the staff if they get all the tips, often they do if you leave cash but not if wt leave a tip on a card paymenty

So she benefitted from us pushing the boat out and ordering expensively, but she had very little (if any) extra work to do than if we'd ordered cheaply

Although I've just thought that if the tips are shared with the kitchen staff, then they definitely had to work harder on our order.

Of course tipping in the UK is a 'thing'. Of course it isn't the law either, but it doesn't have to be law to be the normal thing to do. And yes it may be "ridiculous" but it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Tripadvisor: "In restaurants where you place your order with your waiter/waitress and receive food, and your bill, at your table, it is usual to tip around 10%. The expectation does vary from place to place - in fine dining restaurants where you receive personal service, a tip would always be expected (while never compulsory, it would be considered rude unless there was a problem with the service), whereas in the most casual of restaurants tipping is not universal."

The Independent: "Normal practice is to tip the waiter 10 per cent to 15 per cent of the total bill. If a service charge is included on the bill, it is rare for a customer to tip twice"

Daily Mail: "Research reveals that 87 per cent of Britons always leave a tip, contributing 9 per cent of their bill and tipping, on average, £4.18"

VisitLondon.Com "It is customary to leave 10-15% of the bill when eating out. However, restaurants often add on a service charge (usually 12.5%), especially if you're in a large group, so it's worth checking your bill if you don't want to tip twice. It's not customary to pay a tip for fast food, self-service or takeaway meals"

Lonely Planet: "Tipping: Restaurants Around 10% in restaurants and teahouses with table service. Nearer 15% at smarter restaurants. Tips may be added to your bill as a 'service charge'. However, paying tips or the service charge is not compulsory"

I can only speak from my own experiences as a waitress a few years ago. I worked at an Italian chain restaurant that was part of a restaurant group. We were paid minimum wage and kept all our cash tips- in the case of card tips, I think something like 40% of the tip went to kitchen staff, 10% on 'admin charges' and we got the rest. There was no 'service charge'- where the party had 8 or more people a gratuity was added, but this was treated (AFAIK) the same as a card tip.
Obviously some people are more generous than others- it being a London restaurant we got a lot of tourists, and you got to know which country's visitors would to wouldn't tip- French people, for example, never do. On average after a shift I would get about 5% of my total takings in tips- I don't think I ever got 10%!
I'll always remember one particular occasion, when I was serving a group of 7 people- 4 women, 3 men- they were there for 3 hours and were the last to leave, and their bill came to about £130. They tipped me £3.
Honestly though, wait staff really do rely on their tips. I know I did!

I agree irregular I always tip 10% no matter what type of restaurant it is and everyone I know tips at least this. I'd be embarrassed not to tbh unless the service was truly awful . The only people I've ever heard of not tipping have been on mumsnet - it's one of those 'only on mumsnet' situations