"Service not included"

[Oobis]

Am I completely wrong in my thoughts on this? I really, really hate seeing this printed on bills in restaurants (in this country), as as far as I know, it is completely untrue. Unless the restaurant is contracting self employed waiting staff, in what possible way is the cost of the service not included in the bill? And if it is not, how am I to know that the waiting staff are receiving the full amount I choose to pay them?

I'm not averse to tipping staff for good service at my discretion, but I confess that where they claim service to not be included in the prices they have calculated they need to charge to cover their costs and make a profit, I choose not to - I don't like this way of demanding tips. I've not worked in hospitality for many years, so if I am completely wrong and I am sending these poor, destitute staff home penniless, I shall change my ways. Or at least eat at establishments who have the decency to pay their staff.

Maidofstars, are you American by any chance? Or brought up with their way of doing service? The cost breakdown that you describe above is what I follow when in the U.S. as that is how I understand their business model to work. In the UK I think you would be every restaurant's favourite customer!

Its quite clear as SoupDragon said, its the tip that is given over and above normal service.

If you think service has gone beyond a normal level of service, you tip the staff. That way, the best waiters stay with the restaurant which passes the tips on, and those that do not honour tips, lose custom. Just be clear that the tips go to the staff and not the restaurant which could be part of a quoted company and into the pockets of shareholders

A tip is a gift and if the restaurant do not honour the gift then I boycott them.

I've worked in a few different bars and restaurants and they all had different ways of doing tips. In some you put your own tips in your jar and kept the lot, in others all tips were pooled and shared between waiting on staff. Most annoying was the family owned pub where all tips went to the landlady who doled them out every now and again after taking a chunk for herself. I worked 4 shifts a week and averaged about £20 a month in tips. I took all food and bar payments so knew how much tips were paid by customers!!!

I'm glad you've raised this op. I was querying it a couple of weeks ago with friends. I was trying to book a largish party of family members at a well known restaurant, 20 people. The staff member responded that they could accommodate that number but for larger groups they added a 12 % service charge. It put me off to be honest but I wasn't sure if I was being churlish. I've seen it on bills several times and not really understood it. We always tip generously if the service is good.

if a service charge is added then to me it replaces the tip, I'm not paying both.

last week family meal with service charge, lovely time.

I do not live in the UK, so please take this portion with that information in mind.

In Ontario, Canada, there are multiple levels of minimum wage. The lowest of these is for liquor servers (so if an establishment is not licensed to serve liquor, the wait staff are paid the higher minimum at least). This is, of course, because the expectation is that there will be at least a few tips over the period of a shift. The thing is... the difference between the lowest and the standard minimum wage is only $1.55/hr.

However, years ago, I managed a bar for a summer. As the manager, I asked them how they thought it was best to best manage tips - and they suggested we run a "tip pool". This helped to encourage the staff to not concentrate just on "my own tables" and also to give each other a nudge if their work was flagging.

Tips were shared among the staff at the end of each service. I never took any as it seemed wholly inappropriate to do so, but by running the tip pool, our dish washers, bus boys and back of house staff also got a pat on the back for a particularly good night. If a patron wanted to give something specifically to one of the servers, if a tip was "exceptionally" high, the server in question did get that bit extra at the end of the night.

It seemed to work well for them, staff morale was very good, business was brisk and patrons were happy. I handed the reins to my assistant manager for the following summer (it was a seasonal place, only ran from June to September) but he and I stayed in touch, and he told me they did the same thing regarding tips the next year.

We never asked or demanded any specific gratuities from our patrons - but they were generous and came back often.

I, on the other hand, will not patronise any establishment that has any "gratuity/service charge/whatever" added to the bill. If I am happy with the service, I'll let the server know, and try to make a point of letting the manager know, too. Not only is it good for the server(s), it is good for the manager... bloody nice to hear something positive when your job is usually to put out fires and deal with things that aren't going "right".

Hang on, hang on.

Service charge and tip are interchangable in the UK, no? If the bill says service charge included, you surely don't tip as well? Conversely if the bill doesn't include a service charge, you 'should' tip approx. 10%

There's all sorts of questions about whether staff actually receive the money in both systems (e.g. in many restaurants if you add a tip via credit card, the server gets taxed on it) but surely the principle is that you're only 'expected' to pay service charge OR a tip.

I'm going to a posh hotel for afternoon tea next week where an optional service charge of 12.5% is put on the bill.

Do I ask the server if they get the service charge? If they don't I will want them to take it off and instead leave £15?

To me, service charge and tip are the same.

Service not included = please leave a tip
Optional service charge 12% = we have calculated the tip for you and added it

No way would I leave a further 10 or 15% tip where they have added an optional service charge.

I work as a waitress in a gastro pub. Any tips left either by cash or card ( a gratuity payment) go directly in my pocket and I don't have to tell management what I have been given. It is very much such seen as a great perk to keep the best staff. We never have a service charge even for large groups.

However all restaurants are different in the way they dole out service charge / tips. It is a minefield and I completely understand why customers get confused. If the thought of the managers pocketing tips annoys you and that is why you refuse to tip please clarify with the wait staff and they will let you know the system.

Laurie, you can absolutely ask for your optional SC to be removed, but the risk is that if you leave £15 that will be treated the same way...

I've never tipped in the UK
I didn't know this was a 'thing' ???

I've never ever tipped anyone but I don't think I've eaten in a posh enough restaurant (never been to anywhere that costs more than about 12 quid a meal).
If I go out for a meal I've normally saved up for it and it's normally a special occasion. I can't afford to tip.
Should you only eat out if you can afford to tip?

I don't get the tipping thing really. Quite a lot of the time I actually receive largely indifferent service from bored people with mistakes made in the order, cold food, lengthy delays in being served, etc. If I did the equivalent in my job I would be let go, frankly.

I do tip but only so people don't bitch about me behind my back. I resent doing it though. It stops me eating out as much as I would like to as I get fed up with all the hassle and then having to reward people who quite frankly can't be arsed a lot of the time, and treat me like a nuisance no matter how polite and friendly I am (and I make a deliberate point of being so, but it makes no sodding difference).

Service charges and tips are NOT interchangeable. A service charge is levied by the restaurant and the money goes straight into the restaurant bank account as part of their income. A tip is a bonus you give to a staff member, so they can have a glass of wine after they've finished running around after you. Depending on the scheme the restaurant runs, a tip is far more likely to reach the staff member and benefit them directly.

I always pay service charges for large parties. I view it as paying a charge that covers the extra care and stress of getting 15 meals out at the same time. If I don't think a service charge is warranted, I query it WITH THE SERVER - do YOU get that money? No? Take it off and I'll give it to you in cash then, stick it in your pocket.

YABU to object to receiving this information.

I'm going somewhere as a couple next week where the service charge on a £50 each afternoon tea is 12.5%. I certainly expect that to be the tip- if I added a further 12.5% Id be paying £25 on top of a 100 quid bill to bring me my food

I always tip in Uk unless service charge is added. I usually leave cash rather than adding it to bill

I hate the USA tipping thing and wish they would pay proper wages. in Las Vegas hotel they had notice up. I remember getting attitude from Waitress because I only added 10% to an already expensive breakfast bill.

I'm not sure how to say it any clearer.... You can assume or expect that the service charge is the tip all you want, but it isn't. There is no legal obligation for the owner/manager to give away any of the service charge to their staff (although some may choose to do so). If I were cynical, I'd say that the growing popularity of service charges is a ploy by owners/managers to trick customers into leaving what they think is a tip directly into their own pockets.

A service charge is usually optional (the major exception is for large parties, where, as I said above, I think it's reasonable). The restaurant MUST make their service charge policy clear to the customer. If they don't, you refuse to pay it. If you don't think the (optional) service charge is warranted, you refuse to pay it. If you don't agree with the ethics of it, you refuse to pay it. If you can argue that a compulsory service charge isn't warranted, take it up with the manager.

But please don't think it replaces your tip to your serving staff. It rarely does, except with the most generous of owners/managers.

Heck, I refuse to even add my tip to a card payment, because I suspect that gets swallowed up by the business. I don't like service charges (large parties excepted) and will ALWAYS ask for optional ones to be removed.

I never tip.

I leave my change when paying cash but that's it.

When does it end? My friend tips taxi drivers, hairdressesers, bar staff etc..

I don't have the money for that.

LHReturns No, not American! But probably have a tipping policy that matches that in America. I secretly laugh when 12.5% service charge is added to bills because that's less than I'd usually leave....

In the US/Canada, we give 20% as standard. A couple of years ago, a really rude NY waiter, who took great care to explain American tipping policy and helpfully calculated the 12.5% gratuity amount we must leave because 'I know you don't do that in the UK', found himself several % out of pocket!

A colleague at work was once chased down the street in LA, because he only left 10% (plus odds).

My approach to (optional) service charges: Can you remove this please? We'd rather leave our tip in cash.

(I know they aren't the same thing, but I'm playing stupid).

I've never had anyone get annoyed at that. I can't recall ever querying a compulsory service charge.

We recently ate at a nice restarant.

It is quite expensive.

The bill came with an added service charge of around 10%.
When we asked what this was for we were told it went straight to the restarant and was not given directly to the staff.

We had it removed and gave the waitress herself a tip .

I object to these add ons.

Of course the running costs of the business should be factored into the price of the menu.

For example if it states a pizza is £10, a soft drink £2.50 and a slice of cheesecake is £5

Total £17.50 of course thus includes all the costs.

If you cooked it your self it might cost £5 tops so you are paying approx £12.50 towards the costs/profits of the restarant.

also why should a large party pay a service charge?

Logically the business is making more profit from the bigger order.

Again I hate hidden charges.

Of course the running costs of the business should be factored into the price of the menu

I absolutely agree.

The justification for service charges is usually along the lines of payment admin and laundry. These are categories that are linked to the customer (processing payments, washing tablecloths) and somewhat independent of base business costs (staff wages, rent, licences). Thus, the restaurant is attempting to pass these costs on to the customer (much like Ryanair trying to charge people to use the loo).

Of course, the fact that the restaurant can advertise lower prices can't be ignored.