"Service not included"

[Oobis]

Am I completely wrong in my thoughts on this? I really, really hate seeing this printed on bills in restaurants (in this country), as as far as I know, it is completely untrue. Unless the restaurant is contracting self employed waiting staff, in what possible way is the cost of the service not included in the bill? And if it is not, how am I to know that the waiting staff are receiving the full amount I choose to pay them?
I'm not averse to tipping staff for good service at my discretion, but I confess that where they claim service to not be included in the prices they have calculated they need to charge to cover their costs and make a profit, I choose not to - I don't like this way of demanding tips. I've not worked in hospitality for many years, so if I am completely wrong and I am sending these poor, destitute staff home penniless, I shall change my ways. Or at least eat at establishments who have the decency to pay their staff.

[ScrambledEggAndToast]

When it says 'service not included' I always tip less and I doubt I'm not the only one. I dislike the grabbiness off it and I expect they have missed out on a lot of money by doing this.

[Singsongsung]

I hate the whole idea of tips. If I'm paying a decent amount for a meal, I expect the restaurant to be paying their staff out of the profits. I don't expect to have to pay additional money to do this for them.
My opinion is coloured by the fact that at Uni I worked as a waitress in a restaurant where we received none of the tips. All of them went direct to the managers.

[StarsInTheNightSky]

We're not in the UK, and I've lived most of my adult life overseas, but when we were back in the UK a while ago I used the same policy that I've always used, tip if the service is good or exceptional and if it was average, OK, or bad I ask the waiter/waitress what they did to deserve a tip.
It sounds horrible but I've been in restaurants where the food was dreadful and the service was too, but when I asked it was down to the chef or kitchen staff, and the waiter had been doing all they could. In those cases they shouldn't miss out on a tip, but I wouldn't know unless I asked.

[PtolemysNeedle]

That's an interesting way of looking at it that I hadn't thought of, and I see your point. I can't entirely agree though because as a TA I get plenty of parents asking me to do things with their children, it doesn't mean I expect a tip. My friend works as a carer and her clients ask her to do things, she doesn't get to expect a tip either. If I hire a tradesman to do something in my home I'm asking them to do specific things, and they don't get tips. I realise they aren't on minimum wage or just above, but then neither are hair stylists or colourists.

So I think Ill stick with tipping for particularly good service, and not tipping when I only receive the minimum.

[UsedToBeAPaxmanFan]

I usually tip 10%, but like other pps have said, I feel uneasy about why im doing it as I dont tip people doing other nmw jobs. And I don't tip my hairdresser - it's never occurred to me to do so. I don't add an additional tip if the bill adds on "optional" service charge as I see that as the tip.

Also, I don't understand how the tax on tip money gets paid. Do all the staff have to declare it separately for tax purposes, or does the employer/restaurant owner add the tips to the wages so tax is paid automatically?

[MaidOfStars]

I think we tip people who do a job that puts them at our beck and call. I don't think a supermarket till operator is at my beck and call, so I don't tip him/her. But a waiter, a taxi driver, a hairdresser, I give the orders and they comply. I definitely don't mean it to be offensive but the relationship is one of master and servant. Hence, the privilege of being 'master' means you are obliged to 'take care' of your staff.

Does that make sense? Anyone I tell what to do, I tip them for doing it. Cut my hair like this, bring me that pizza, drive me there.

[PtolemysNeedle]

I think the thing that puts me off giving tips automatically is that there are so mant jobs that are paid at minimum wage or just over, and the vast majority of them never attract tips. I can't see what's so special about working in a restaurant that means people deserve tips when most other low waged people don't get them.

I don't mean to sound like I'm a proper tight arse, I'm really not and do often tip in restaurants. I just have no qualms about not leaving one if the service was basic.

[verystressedmum]

I tend not to tip in restaurants unless I've got change in my purse.
I don't add on extra for service charge when paying by card, when I eat out I expect the service to be brought to my table as part of the price. My local Indian restaurant is more expensive to eat in than to use the take away part, I assume to cover the service. If the staff get minimum wage then it's no different to any other worker getting minimum wage, I don't top their wages up.
I've worked for minimum wage and that's the only wage I got.

[XiCi]

Yes I tip my hairdresser and my nail technician 10%. Also tip bar staff and taxi drivers but usually just round that up to nearest pound.

[MaidOfStars]

I tip hairdressers. £10 for the colourist, £10 for the stylist and £5 for the person washing my hair and bringing me a glass of wine making me a brew.

[irregularegular]

Sniffs and Sneezes: I think that's why London restaurants are more likely to add a service charge rather than rely on tips.

[orangefusion]

What about hairdressers? Do you tip your hairdresser?

[XiCi]

I agree irregular I always tip 10% no matter what type of restaurant it is and everyone I know tips at least this. I'd be embarrassed not to tbh unless the service was truly awful . The only people I've ever heard of not tipping have been on mumsnet - it's one of those 'only on mumsnet' situations

[SniffsAndSneezes]

I can only speak from my own experiences as a waitress a few years ago. I worked at an Italian chain restaurant that was part of a restaurant group. We were paid minimum wage and kept all our cash tips- in the case of card tips, I think something like 40% of the tip went to kitchen staff, 10% on 'admin charges' and we got the rest. There was no 'service charge'- where the party had 8 or more people a gratuity was added, but this was treated (AFAIK) the same as a card tip.
Obviously some people are more generous than others- it being a London restaurant we got a lot of tourists, and you got to know which country's visitors would to wouldn't tip- French people, for example, never do. On average after a shift I would get about 5% of my total takings in tips- I don't think I ever got 10%!
I'll always remember one particular occasion, when I was serving a group of 7 people- 4 women, 3 men- they were there for 3 hours and were the last to leave, and their bill came to about £130. They tipped me £3.
Honestly though, wait staff really do rely on their tips. I know I did!

[irregularegular]

Of course tipping in the UK is a 'thing'. Of course it isn't the law either, but it doesn't have to be law to be the normal thing to do. And yes it may be "ridiculous" but it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Tripadvisor: "In restaurants where you place your order with your waiter/waitress and receive food, and your bill, at your table, it is usual to tip around 10%. The expectation does vary from place to place - in fine dining restaurants where you receive personal service, a tip would always be expected (while never compulsory, it would be considered rude unless there was a problem with the service), whereas in the most casual of restaurants tipping is not universal."

The Independent: "Normal practice is to tip the waiter 10 per cent to 15 per cent of the total bill. If a service charge is included on the bill, it is rare for a customer to tip twice"

Daily Mail: "Research reveals that 87 per cent of Britons always leave a tip, contributing 9 per cent of their bill and tipping, on average, £4.18"

VisitLondon.Com "It is customary to leave 10-15% of the bill when eating out. However, restaurants often add on a service charge (usually 12.5%), especially if you're in a large group, so it's worth checking your bill if you don't want to tip twice. It's not customary to pay a tip for fast food, self-service or takeaway meals"

Lonely Planet: "Tipping: Restaurants Around 10% in restaurants and teahouses with table service. Nearer 15% at smarter restaurants. Tips may be added to your bill as a 'service charge'. However, paying tips or the service charge is not compulsory"

[MaidOfStars]

So she benefitted from us pushing the boat out and ordering expensively, but she had very little (if any) extra work to do than if we'd ordered cheaply

Although I've just thought that if the tips are shared with the kitchen staff, then they definitely had to work harder on our order.

[Heels99]

I always ask the staff if they get all the tips, often they do if you leave cash but not if wt leave a tip on a card paymenty

[MaidOfStars]

Do I just mix with a completely different group of people to everyone else here?

I'm like you. I always tip (unless something catastrophic has happened, which it never has). I've returned to a restaurant the next day to leave a tip, after a bill/loo visit/we-both-thought-the-other-had-left-a-tip mix up. I've supplemented weedy tips left by the bill payer (that's probably not cool, although they've never known).

At some point, the % starts to add up to a crazy amount though. For example, we recently had cause to tip £100, which was slightly disproportionate to the amount of work our waitress had to do. It takes the same effort to open a £20 bottle as it does to open a £50 bottle; she brought the same number of dishes to our table. So she benefitted from us pushing the boat out and ordering expensively, but she had very little (if any) extra work to do than if we'd ordered cheaply.

[PurpleSwirl]

I've never tipped in the UK
I didn't know this was a 'thing' ???

It isn't. Tipping in the UK is COMPLETELY up to the individual and no way law at all. You want to tip, tip. If you don't, you don't.

[Pinot4me]

I always ask the waiter (or waitress) if I hey actually get the service if I pay on cc. If they don't then I tip with cash. I once had a £35 service charge (a large table of people) removed from the bill because the waiter told me that he was told to say they got it but it actually went into a pot to cover sick pay and holiday pay (wtaf!) the manager went mad when I removed it demanding to know what was wrong with their service. The small print said it was optional though so i could. I slipped the waiter the cash when the manager wasn't looking. He nearly died of excitement lol - he promised to share it with kitchen staff so I hope he did!

[irregularegular]

Done a bit of googling. Both survey results and guidebooks suggest that 80-90% of people in the UK always tip in restaurants (unless self-service etc) and the average tip is about 10%. So it's not just me! Clearly a non-representative sample on this thread.

[PtolemysNeedle]

Assuming that you should tip every time you eat at a restaurant is just ridiculous, and it completely defeats the point of tips.

Tips in my mind are for service that goes beyond reasonable expectation. If I get particularly good service, I leave a tip. If the bare minimum is done by a server, then they've done nothing to earn a tip and therefore don't get one. It's that easy.

[irregularegular]

No, I don't tip and pay the service charge at the same time, it's one or the other. I don't see a service charge added very often - only for large groups - though I have noticed it a bit more in London lately (don't eat there very often)

I feel like I am living on a different planet to everyone else. Seriously, everyone I have ever eat out with always tips 10% when there is table service. From the Fat Duck to Pizza Express and everything between. Never known anyone suggest not to. Except when maybe once every few years we will have dreadful service.

Do I just mix with a completely different group of people to everyone else here?

[cherryade8]

I don't eat out much, because I can't afford to since redundancy. On the odd occasion that i take dc for a treat to pizza express etc, I object to being expected to tip/given a receipt stating 'service not included' this may have been appropriate years ago, before minimum wage, but now waiting staff are paid the same as shop staff etc, none of whom get tips.

In the past waiting staff earned very little in wages as restaurants knew they got tips, this isn't the case now (or they are no different to the rest of us anyway).

[sparechange]

When they say service not included they mean tip not included (in the UK at least). It has no bearing on staff pay at all and that's not what it's referring to

I think is has been all-but-eliminated now after outcry, but a few years ago it was very common for service charge to make up wages in chain restaurants.

If you worked 3 hours and the total service charge collected on those tables came to £30, that would be your wages for the shift.
If it was a quiet day and the tables you served only produced a service charge of £10, the restaurant would top it up so you received the minimum wage for those 3 hours, but on busy days, your service charge was all you'd get.

Places like Pizza Express used to operate like this...