To ask do you think children start school too young in England?

[Tangerineandturquoise]

I know there will be differences, some children seem too young even by the end of Year R, others including a couple of young relatives I have are chomping at the bit to get started.
Scotland start at P1, so most skip starting at the age of reception, but then I have just seen this www.gov.scot/Publications/2012/05/7940/4 which is similar to the American system for starting Kindergarten (which is our year 1) and it can be deferred, which for some reason they call red shirting in the USA but it seems some parents in Scotland can also defer entry, I know technically you can defer in England but you do seem to be expected to jump through many many hoops..
Most of the continent start later for formal schooling-and are still quite play based when they start.
We tend to start at 4 (with some lucky children very nearly five) with full days quite quickly.

Sorry it is a rambled post

Well if you want to use the PISA rankings, they show there is no correlation between school starting age and attainment. And if there's no correlation, then the school starting age can't be affecting attainment.

I think it depends on the child and family.

We live in Spain and it seems to be popular here for children to start formal schooling in the September of the calendar year in which they turn 3. (i.e. those born from January to August are 3 and those born from September to December are 2). By formal schooling I mean classroom, teacher (and assistants), timetable/lessons, rules, eating lunch at school, "homework". I don't know whether this trend is countrywide or just in the region we live in. Friends who were brought up here tell me that they started "school" at the same age.

Our son and daughter were both born in June so they were 3 and a bit when they started. Our daughter had also been at nursery/daycare before that and that was also fairly formal. My daughter has just finished her first year of "school"; she is 4 and will join what is called Reception class in England in September. She, like her older brother, adores school. She gets to do all sorts of things that we could not do at home, at least, not with the frequency (or level of expertise) that she can at school, such as making things in art class, playing games and sports, learning and performing songs and poems, going on trips or hearing guest speakers such as police officers, ambulance drivers, vets in school, doing very basic science experiments and cookery, as well as being with her friends all day.

I see exactly where you are coming from, OP, and am not specifically in favour of starting school early, however, our personal experience of this has been positive.

Every education system has its problems. We tend to look at the good bits of other people's education systems and ignore the bad bits. For example South Korea has the highest suicide rate in the world. German has better results than us, but they seperate children into different educational paths at the age of ten after only three or four years of schooling. Germans have the option of kindergarten, but there are no truancy officers to make german five year olds attend kindergarten.

Basically if your german seven year old does not get his arse in gear then he is consigned to the dustbin Hauptschule at the age of ten. The system works against children from poor backgrounds or immigrants who need a little bit of time to catch up/ learn german.

Rather than immitating high performing PISA schools we have to look at what we want from our society. I feel that sending children to school at four years old works well in the UK.

It's 3 where I Live! But they only do 730-1230.

I agree with Really Tired, all education systems have their issues (although I think that Germany is now making reforms to its two-tier system, thank goodness. It really is very outdated, and so hard on the kids who are slow developers).

There's a difference between the social side and interactions, and formal learning. The latter too early, not the former.

I think a certain amount of academics in Early Year (i.e.. nursery and reception year) is probably mildly beneficial--that said, if the UK delayed all academics until Y1, it probably wouldn't be a disaster.

However. While I don't think it's essential to teach actual "academic skills" during Early Years, I DO think that children MUST be learning "pre-academic skills" during those years. So that they are really, really ready to learn efficiently and effectively from Year 1 onwards.

By "pre-academic skills," I mean stuff like:

Understanding the idea of schedules
Learning to sit at a table properly and grip pens/pencils correctly
Learning how to listen to a teacher's instructions when necessary
Learning how to focus on difficult tasks, and how to keep going with something that seems a little difficult or boring at first
Learning to have drinks and snacks at appropriate times and not sip/graze all day long
Developing LOTS of rich vocabulary and general knowledge, through constant exposure to content-rich teacher talk, lots and lots of story-time, and educational trips/outings

Some preschools/reception years are no doubt doing a good job of teaching these "pre-academic skills."

But I do feel like a lot of Early Years practitioners are being encouraged to take the "child-led" idea to a ridiculous extreme--classrooms with activities scattered around them and children allowed to spend all day ricocheting around, choosing what activities take their fancy.

SOME of the day should, absolutely, be spent on free-flow play, but I think it is very important that a large portion of the day is also spent doing adult-directed activities to expand children's knowledge/vocabulary and skills. Some EY classrooms don't seem to be doing this.

No, not overall, but i wish it were easier to get dispensation for some children with special needs

"SOME of the day should, absolutely, be spent on free-flow play, but I think it is very important that a large portion of the day is also spent doing adult-directed activities to expand children's knowledge/vocabulary and skills. Some EY classrooms don't seem to be doing this."

School nurseries and reception classrooms certainly provide a mixture of adult activites and child initated learning. I feel that learning to stick and concentrate on a difficult activity is important. A practioner shold encourage a child to stick at something difficult for at least a few minutes.

I feel a more serious issue is the poor standard of edcuation in day nurseries and nursery nurse led pre schools. As Elizabeth Truss puts it, some children do wonder about aimlessly.

I think that one of the issues in the UK is that there is such a massive cost divide btw pre school / nursery and proper school. Most UK parents I know couldn't wait for their kids to start to start proper school, - the earlier the better - so that they didn't have to shell out huge childcare costs anymore. That is a big push to get children starting school younger.

I live in France where full time, state-funded nursery is available to all children from the age of 3 upwards. It's not compulsory, but most children attend from the age of three to five. Then school proper starts at six. Yes it's a long day for the littluns (0830 to 1630), but it's mostly structured play, socialisation and a nap. If the child needs to drop back a year, have an extra year in nursery because they are younger or struggling, it's not a problem because it doesn't cost the parents anything more.

Anyone with CHILDREN STARTING RECEPTION THIS MONTH could you please complete the survey in the link below.
We are interested in finding out whether your child will be having school lunches or packed lunches and your opinion on these. Your participation would be hugely appreciated. If you have any friends who you think fit this criteria then please share the link to this survey. Thank you!

www.surveymonkey.com/r/Eating_At_School