To ask do you think children start school too young in England?

[Tangerineandturquoise]

I know there will be differences, some children seem too young even by the end of Year R, others including a couple of young relatives I have are chomping at the bit to get started.
Scotland start at P1, so most skip starting at the age of reception, but then I have just seen this www.gov.scot/Publications/2012/05/7940/4 which is similar to the American system for starting Kindergarten (which is our year 1) and it can be deferred, which for some reason they call red shirting in the USA but it seems some parents in Scotland can also defer entry, I know technically you can defer in England but you do seem to be expected to jump through many many hoops..
Most of the continent start later for formal schooling-and are still quite play based when they start.
We tend to start at 4 (with some lucky children very nearly five) with full days quite quickly.

Sorry it is a rambled post

I think they start too early

All three of mine from 4 years 8 months through to 4 years 3 months settled in fine, but I still think it was too soon

I think 5 coming on 6 would be better

Not at all, I think it's the right time, reception is pretty easygoing.

When people say "ready" do you mean that you think for their wellbeing they needed to be in school, ie, education in a building 6+ hours a day, 5 days a week. Do you believe that for academic reasons? For social purposes?
Or just that they are ready as in they coped fine?

Ive tried to work out what my ideal would be, whether or not practical, and I think it would be quite different to the current infant school provision.

DS will have exactly half an hour of free play in year 1. It makes me sad.

I think homeschooling for the early years should be widely accepted as an option, just as attending school is. I'm very reluctant to send my child next September and met resistance from everyone Ive mentioned homeschooling to.

When my DD started school, at almost 9, I was invited into an assembly with other new parents, mostly reception parents. As I was waiting to go into the hall the reception class arrived in a typical crocodile with teacher at the front and TA bringing up the rear. One little boy, he was probably 4 and very cute, was being a train, his arms at his side going round as children do when being a train and quietly making train noises. Teacher turned round and told him, quite sternly, to stop being silly. It made me feel really sad, it seemed such an appropriate thing to do.

Hi Lozy79, yep, most people will not be supportive of home schooling. Don't make my mistake, I sent my DS against what I wanted to do, and he had an awful time.

Not doing it again, my DD will be home educated, and go when she's ready.

You know best, your children x

Although my son was reading well at 4 yrs 8 months when he started school, emotionally he just was not ready . I dont think he ever caught up . I should have kept him home for much longer.

When it was time for his son to go to school we kept him back till he was 5 years and 2 months. He was much better at settling in.

I think just gone 4 is too young. Three of my grandchildren are home educated and are doing so well. Learning never stops in their home.

It will be interesting as the eldest one turns 11 what will happen next.

Too early. They should start school at 6 like the rest of Europe (majority anyway).

bringontheholidays that is a good point what is ready- I suppose to me it means they will flourish as they learn, rather than just cope (or not) with the environment and pick up on what is taught

I've never come across anyone who regrets deferring in Scotland - but I have met quite a few who regretted not taking up the option of deferring.

In Scotland, children can be anything between 4 years 5.5 months and nearly 6 when they start - although in practice the oldest tend to be around 5 years 9 months when they start.

Quantity over quality every time for successive governments. Also deferring was only allowed in Scotland and not England. In England you could opt to miss reception but then you would start in year one with all those who had been in reception. Catch 22!

Is English YR the same, or similar, to Scottish P1? If so, then yes, I think 4 is way too young to start that and I'm very thankful that my children didn't have to go to school at that age.

We deferred DS (late Feb birthday) so that he started school at 5 1/2 and had no regrets.

So many Jan / Feb birthdays defer here, that if you sent a Feb born child to school at 4 1/2 they might be the youngest in their year by a month and they'd be in the same class as children 13 months older.

DS could swim by the time he started school, which seemed like a more useful skill that reading or writing at 5.

I agree with prettybird - I've not met anyone who regretted deferring, but I have met people who regretted not deferring.

Ds, who has a mid September birthday, is one of the younger ones in his year despite technically being right in the middle of the year.

I know of a boy that is only a month younger than him who is in the year below him (although to be fair, that is also because he came from abroad).

Overall I don't think that rising 5 is too young for the majority of children. Perhaps a return to a twice yearly intake would help some summer born children who aren't quite there in September?

Yes I think they are too young! Let children be children for as long as possible- no need for times tables , spelling tests....being pushed too young doesn't do any good long term- and for some is a negative that stays for life. Nothing wrong in learning through play for AGES!

My twins started school at four and were fine. They were and are in a SALT unit at a local school, so there is less emphasis even in y1 on learning etc.

I know next to nothing about it admittedly, but I think all schooling up to about age 7 should be play based learning as in Scandinavian schools.

Bringon - doesn't he have time outside of school for free play? Genuine question btw, or do you just mean in school? Because they still do a lot of fun stuff in the learning lessons as well.

I think it depends on the child, some are ready and thrive in a structured school environment, some need a little more time to adjust maybe?

My first dc is still in utero so I cant comment on my own experiences! We plan to home school but our work lifestyles support it. I think some children do great at school and would not keep my child out of school if they and I thought they would learn better in that environment.

My three siblings live in Sweden, (illegal to homeschool your child there which I think is horrible but thats my opinion) they go to a Waldorf school and started age 6/7
Two of them get on great there, but the eldest could do with a bit more structure I think, she's 11 and still cannot read.

I think when comparing internationally you have to be somewhat wary of apples and pears. Many people cite Singapore or China as starting later than the UK but that's not really true. Yes, they do a shorter day- typically 3 hrs- until they're 6 in the local curriculum schools BUT they are doing strutured literacy exercises from age 3 (often in 2 languages). DD is 3 next month and from September will be in local Hong Kong kindy where the curriculum is less play focused than Uk reception class.

He does have time to play at home DJ but there's not much time left outside school, and certainly Mon-Fri its time when he's tired. He will have half an hour a week of child led play at school. The rest is adult led/initiated.

I live in a country where children don't start school until 6.

I don't know about other preschool settings other than the specific one my DC attended; I know that it was free-flow free play there, and there was no instruction in reading, writing or maths, even in the final year. If they want to spend the whole day in the sand pit, or playing with dolls - or doing woodwork with saws and hammers and other proper tools - then they can.

However there were loads of special activities, projects etc in the pre-school year, culminating in a 3 day residential trip. The children certainly aren't bored - I'm always a bit when people say their child was bored of pre-school and couldn't wait to go to school. Surely a 4 year old shouldn't be bored in a building full of age-appropriate toys and craft materials, populated by their peers!

My DC learnt so much in their first year of school - going from not being able to read and write, to reading and writing fluently. If you compared with children from an English yr 2, who have been at school 2 years longer, I don't think there would be much difference now - whereas back in September there was a big difference. They seem to have caught up in just one year. And they have a shorter day too - just mornings, 8-12 every day.

My youngest would be due to start Reception this September if we lived in England . I don't have any doubts about maturity, or academic readiness, or anything, I'm sure they would cope fine. But I am still massively relieved that they don't have to start school for another 2 years here, and can carry on spending the whole day just playing with their friends.

My DS is a Winter born and exceptionally bright - taught himself to read at 2 etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum.

My DD is August-born. Also bright, although not in same league as DS - he is academic; she is not (although she's only 5 so who knows ).

Neither was ready for school in Reception.
It's not the structure, or the learning, or the physical ability of putting on coats and going to the toilet.

It's the very real challenge of 30 children in 1 classroom with a teacher and a TA (if they're lucky).

I read with horror the proposals to have 2 year old children in schools with reduced adult:child ratios - because they're teachers so they can cope better

Yes, I think it's far too young and the school days are too long (in general - not just when they start). I also don't think it's the best way for children to learn but that could be an entire thread on its own!

In my case I didn't think DS1 was ready but he started and turns out he was. Just a bit tired after school. He was fine.

I think most children benefit from being in some sort of collective setting from 4. The problem in the UK is that (a) it's to all intents and purposes compulsory from 4 in England and Wales meaning that the small % of children who would be better at home can't have their needs met and (b) there is too much formal learning too soon.

I think the continental model which offers f/t optional preschool from 3 with formal education starting at 6 is much better, especially if it is combined with some flexibility re the transition date between preschool and primary school.

We are in France where all children get a f/t preschool place at 3 (and about 98% of children take this up), but school is not compulsory until the September of the year a child turns 6 (so between 5yrs 8 months and 6 yrs 8 months depending on birthdate).