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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be depressed and upset about our cruel society, but know that there is bugger all I can do.

129 replies

ultrathule · 24/07/2015 09:33

Recently I've been getting quite upset by the news, and especially by comment threads and chat boards where individuals express their opinions. It seems that there is so much hate, casual cruelty and lack of understanding of others misfortune around. I know intellectually that this is what life is like, and it isn't really worth getting upset about, but I can't help it. I am finding it all so overwhelming. I want to stop reading the paper, or looking at facebook, or opening certain threads, but at the same time I can't quite help myself.

I read about spikes put on ground to stop homeless people from sleeping under a bit of shelter. Then I read a comment thread where unfortunate destitute people are called scum. I read about people who lose their homes, who despite working all hours they can, still can't make ends meet, at the mercy of landlords who can evict at will. I read comment threads that call them benefit scroungers, and blame them for having children.
I read about people who will never have the lifestyle their parents enjoyed, despite doing everything "right" - going to university, studying, working hard, finding a vocation. The things that were normal to their parents (owning a home, not being in debt, having a pension), are out of their reach. Yet when they complain, they are called "entitled".
I read about people fleeing awful persecution, left to drown at sea. Or suffocating in the back of lorries. Or thrown into internment camps. Who are then blamed for trying to better their lives.
I hear about people who are exploited, then condemned for their own exploitation.

And the fact of these things is bad enough, but the attitude of so many people which seems to be "to hell with everyone else", is what upsets me the most. A old work colleague of mine, after losing her partner and being unable to continue in her job, suffering from mental illness, was left destitute by benefit sanctions (caused by letters being stolen from the dreadful hostel she'd been placed in after being evicted from her home). She's a normal person who has been destroyed by our so called "society", and now has been left on the scrap heap. I wrote about her, and the comments in response were to the effect: it is her own fault, why should we care?

What have we become?

OP posts:
AbbeyBartlet · 24/07/2015 18:23

Tinkly Well that's not something I would do - and I don't blame you for changing how you feel about that person.

EquityDarling · 24/07/2015 18:23

Do you use the M&s or state schools? Would you expect them to still be available to you if you were made redundant and stopped paying tax? Very few of us are islands - we all have some level of responsibility to society

specialsubject · 24/07/2015 18:24

fortunately Christian values are not universal. Angry

what can you do in the real world?

  • vote every time according to your conscience, not your constituency
  • don't waste. Don't use stuff just because it is there. Use less. Recycle.
  • minimise your resource use. BTW that means thinking hard about having more than two kids if you are not already in that position.
  • volunteer and educate others
  • question everything. Use your brain and your education. 'research' is not 'I read it on the internet somewhere'
  • give to a charity that appeals to you. By a direct bank payment or cheque for minimal overheads.
  • campaign for tax RISES (how do you think the Netherlands and Scandinavia do what they do?)
ArgyMargy · 24/07/2015 18:28

Hmmm. I think YAB a little bit U. We are fed awful, horrible, hateful stuff by the media and watch totally fake "reality" tv where everyone is utterly vile because that apparently brings in viewers. Think about your friends, your relatives, people you know - are they selfish twats and greedy bastards? No, they're not. Media is NOT reality. The reality is that the vast majority of people in this country are honest and good-hearted and would certainly help out their neighbours or strangers if necessary. Well, that's what I think anyway. Most of the time.

EquityDarling · 24/07/2015 18:29

Haha nhs not M&s - though I'm sure an argument could be made for M&s being an essential state service

AbbeyBartlet · 24/07/2015 18:33

Equity I have no children. That was my choice partly as I didn't want to have the state take any more financial responsibility than necessary. I have responsibility to society and I fulfil that by doing my job and earning money to pay tax. There isn't a lot else I can afford to do.

I cannot help the fact that I exist but I can do my bit by trying to keep the burden on the state to a minimum.

I know we are all potentially close to a situation where life craps on you and you have to claim benefits etc, and I have no issue with that. It's what the welfare state was invented for. So I understand that people end up on the bones of their arse through no fault of their own.

It's hard to explain without sounding like a bellend. But the choices I have made ensure that if the worst happened, the responsibility on the state would be minimised as much as possible.

AbbeyBartlet · 24/07/2015 18:34

Equity Grin at M&S - I know people who would say that their food is an essential in life Grin

paulapompom · 24/07/2015 18:37

I have only skimmed so very sorry if I'm repeating what others have said, but no YaNbu, BUT, if you look about there are lots of random acts of kindness going on too. Wiil post some links x

WhirlpoolGalaxyM51 · 24/07/2015 18:42

I suppose that people are just fundamentally different aren't they. And the people on one side can't understand the people on the other. I remember a thing about highly competitive people at work who will do anything to succeed, and not think twice about treading on someone else to get somewhere, and their assumption is that everyone thinks the same way. It is incomprehensible to them that many people actually don't think like that at all.

Anyway I guess in answer to the OP, human beings are capable of awful things and always have been. We are as a species able to do the most awful things to each other, if we think it benefits us in some way, including if it ingratiates us with whoever we want to impress / has power.

This is the reason for the atrocities we see perpetrated right? Throughout history. And not just wars and so forth - but things like corporations poisoning tracts of land and water resulting in illness and death for swathes of people, individuals and gangs trafficking children for sex, people who are meant to protect exploiting those that are vulnerable, corruption resulting in dangerous buildings that collapse and loads of people die, I mean the list is endless.

When times are good, there is less need to pursue these activities. Or their personalities can be channelled into less damaging activities. When times are bad, it all starts to come out.

Bottom line is some people are just bastards, you know the old thing of "sell their own grandmother" - those people.

And of course plenty of people just enjoy seeing other people hurt / upset / in discomfort, irrespective of whether it gains them anything personally. It just makes them feel good. Like the cunt who deliberately drove a lorry through a large puddle soaking my 70yo FIL and 3 children who were having an afternoon out earlier. You know, those sort of people, who are just nasty individuals.

The solution is to have laws to limit the worst of their excesses, a society that frowns upon their medium excesses, and enough wealth distributed that people with these traits don't feel the need to exercise them in too horrific a manner.

That's what I think anyway Smile

puddymuddles · 24/07/2015 18:45

Hi Ultrathule, A couple of things: GO IMMEDIATELY ON A MEDIA DIET. Yes, you can "help" yourself by not looking at awful newspaper headlines. You have got a bad habit of looking at crappy media, break it. There are many wonderful things going on in the world - problem is the media isn't reporting them. Wanna know why? It doesn't sell newspapers. If you continue to wallow in negative and biased press reports and choose to ignore the many good things out there, THAT IS YOUR CHOICE. Sorry to be blunt. Start CHOOSING what you allow into your mind and realise the MEDIA is NOT an accurate representation of reality, you will make yourself mentally ill by allowing junk into your brain. Start searching the internet for GOOD stories - they are out there, but it won't make the FRONT pages of the tabloids. Guard your mind and don't fall into the trap of allowing the media to distort your thinking. LOOK for the GOOD and you will find it - BUT YOU MUST LOOK FOR IT!! Start also focussing on all the things you have to be grateful for in your life (your health, you have food, clothing, a roof over your head, an education).

WhirlpoolGalaxyM51 · 24/07/2015 19:13

I think it's important that people are made aware of things like the current investigations into decades of child abuse by people with power although I doubt we will ever find out the whole truth.

Really awful stuff does go on around the world, all the time, and we can't afford to turn a collective blind eye. IMO.

ReadtheSmallPrint · 24/07/2015 19:18

YANBU but you are being unrealistic if you think society is getting 'nastier' or more selfish than it was before.

People were nasty and judgy and selfish in different ways and about different things.

saintlyjimjams · 24/07/2015 19:28

YANBU

Find likeminded people. Volunteer if you can. Campaign for voting reform (it's the only way things will change I think). I joined a political party after the last elections (Lib Dems - it was a toss up between them and the Greens) & have found that helped my state of mind. Let's hope Corbyn gets in - if nothing else he has demonstrated that there are a lot of people who want politicians who are passionate & vote with for what they believe in rather than to pursue power.

parallax80 · 24/07/2015 19:28

This is a really good website to counter some of the dreadful news - much of which is terrible, and needs reporting - but arent the only things happening.

positivenews.org.uk

DoraGora · 24/07/2015 19:30

If you defraud somebody it's not a matter of being considered wrong. It's a crime. Not wanting to associate with criminals isn't particularly controversial. I'd say that it makes perfect sense. On the whole I wouldn't call Conservatives criminals. Although they might change some of Gordon's laws to make fucking over the poor people easier.

FlumptyDumpty · 24/07/2015 20:54

PtolemysNeedle I would be interested in your thoughts as to how right wingers are not selfish. Always happy to see the other side, but I do struggle with this.

MamaMotherMummy · 24/07/2015 21:26

YANBU

Not only that, but look further back into history. Look into the Transatlantic Slave Trade and colonialism, and all its devastating effects that continue into this day. Consider the situation of the Native Americans. Look at the paedophile rings that are allowed to operate among the most powerful people in the world.

This world is in a mess, a spiritual, moral and financial crisis.

It is good that you feel this way because you realize that things are not as they are supposed to be. I can't tell you what to do about it because I'm not you but I'm sure your pain and your passion will lead you to something worthwhile you can do to make your difference.

BMW6 · 24/07/2015 21:32

But lots of people like myself do not rigidly vote for one political party. Sometimes we vote Labour, sometimes Tory, Sometimes another. In my 40 years of voting I'm split roughly 50/50 between L & T.

I am not swinging between being a nice person and a nasty person. I am voting for the party that I think will do the best for the next 5 years for the country as a whole.

Frankly I am astounded that people dogmatically vote for one Party every time no matter what the state of the country/ecomomy etc is, or what "their" party's policies are....Confused

MamaMotherMummy · 24/07/2015 21:33

Agreed BMW6

ppolly · 24/07/2015 21:35

Would people who are right wing argue that they should help people to help themselves? And that a good education is fundamental. Also that hard work should be rewarded. I'm typing in cliches but never mind.

FriendofBill · 24/07/2015 21:47

YANBU. It's divide and rule.

I think it has to get worse before it gets better.
I agree that the planet is in a huge mess but I believe in the process of sorting out.
I don't know what that sorting out will end up as but I don't let any of it get in my way of doing the best I can with what I have at any given time.

I have to think beyond politics to find peace.

FriendofBill · 24/07/2015 21:48

Yes mama,mother,mummy

Werksallhourz · 24/07/2015 21:53

What have we become?

What we always were.

I think, ultrathule, that your perspective is a little naive in many respects. You seem to be expecting that people should "care" about the situations of other people that they do not personally know, without really considering just what you are asking of those people and whether or not it is a reasonable expectation.

Over the years, I have realised that life throws an extraordinary amount of fairly horrific shit at almost everyone. You really have to be extremely lucky and privileged to get off scot free. In the last 12 months alone, amongst my family, friends and colleagues, there have been three stillbirths, two violent deaths, a sudden spousal death, two nervous breakdowns, a number of job losses, five family breakdowns, a very nasty divorce, a number of serious health crises and a bankruptcy ... and that is just the stuff I know about. I have three friends and two family members that will probably have stress-induced mental health problems for the rest of their lives. One of my closest friends has a son with so many behavioural problems that she has had to turn to medication to deal with the stress.

With this in mind, and I doubt my circle of family and friends is unique, I would question whether the majority of people these days actually have the psychological capacity to give a damn about the circumstances of people they don't know -- purely because their own lives are just as difficult, stressful and traumatising, albeit for different reasons.

I am late Gen X and one of those people who will never attain the standard of living that my baby boomer parents have enjoyed, so I understand the arguments of the twenty-somethings that have suddenly realised the same is true for them. Yet, in the same vein, I just think: "Crikey, you think life is unfair now. You have no idea of the earthquakes to come."

It strikes me that what you are actually channelling here is the fearsome notion that those who say "to hell with everyone else" say that because they are evil Gordon Gekko types with no empathy, emotion or compassion. From this assumption, you are looking at the sheer number of instances of "to hell with..." online and projecting those numbers onto the population at large.

Well, Gordon Gekko was a classic psychopath and, in reality, only about 5 percent of a population falls into this category. Considering this, you have to accept that people from the other 95 percent may hold the views they do for valid reasons borne of their own life circumstances and experiences -- not because they are demonic arseholes who laugh in the face of others' misfortune.

All that said, I admit I used to feel the same way as you. I campaigned, I protested, I was very heavily politically-involved. I even lost a job over my political radicalism.

But I slowly came to see that my political frustration was rooted in the false belief that we could actually do something about a particular problem, that we could solve it once and for all, that we could make things better -- when actually, in most cases, we couldn't. In some cases, not even the British government could do anything. In many cases, doing something actually made things worse through unintended consequences. We simply do not have that control or authority over other people and the choices they make.

No-one does.

lokole · 24/07/2015 22:14

Whats wrong withe idea that the Government gets its finances in order. The economy has been growing strongly recently and yet the Government is still having to borrow heavily in capital markets to finance its spending. The budget deficit is structural not cyclical so mass reforms of the State and its spending are required.

PtolemysNeedle · 24/07/2015 22:19

Flumpty, I'm not naive enough to think that there's no selfishness involved at all, it's more that I think the levels of selfishness are pretty equal on both sides.

It's very easy to vote for higher taxes when there's no chance of it cutting your income, just as it's very easy to vote for benefit cuts when it's unlikely that you'll ever be completely dependent on them. No one ever accuses unemployed or underemployed left wingers of being selfish because they want a high standard of living paid for by other people, but aren't they voting in their own self interest as much as anyone else?

Do you want to know my thoughts on the selfishness of right wingers or on the selfishness of Tory voters, because I don't think they are exactly the same thing? Being right wing in my mind is about believing in a smaller state, allowing the markets to be the biggest influence on a country's finances and expecting people to take responsibility for themselves and their families as far as possible. You can believe in that because you are completely selfish and you don't want to pay for it, or you can believe in that because you genuinely think a government that provides the opportunity for people to do well in life is likely to have better outcomes for those individuals.

People have different things that they care about, they might be pretty much in the centre but think a right leaning government will be better for the economy and will therefore benefit everyone or (as has happened) think that the left leaning choice just isn't going to do well on things you care about so you go the other way instead. In which case you're not being selfish, you're being practical.

You can believe in left wing policies because you personally will end up with more state money in your pocket just because the system is very generous, or because you have genuine and reasons for needing more state money to prevent real hardship and suffering. Not all reasons for being left wing are as selfless and virtuous as some would have us believe.

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