To be depressed and upset about our cruel society, but know that there is bugger all I can do.

[ultrathule]

Recently I've been getting quite upset by the news, and especially by comment threads and chat boards where individuals express their opinions. It seems that there is so much hate, casual cruelty and lack of understanding of others misfortune around. I know intellectually that this is what life is like, and it isn't really worth getting upset about, but I can't help it. I am finding it all so overwhelming. I want to stop reading the paper, or looking at facebook, or opening certain threads, but at the same time I can't quite help myself.

I read about spikes put on ground to stop homeless people from sleeping under a bit of shelter. Then I read a comment thread where unfortunate destitute people are called scum. I read about people who lose their homes, who despite working all hours they can, still can't make ends meet, at the mercy of landlords who can evict at will. I read comment threads that call them benefit scroungers, and blame them for having children.
I read about people who will never have the lifestyle their parents enjoyed, despite doing everything "right" - going to university, studying, working hard, finding a vocation. The things that were normal to their parents (owning a home, not being in debt, having a pension), are out of their reach. Yet when they complain, they are called "entitled".
I read about people fleeing awful persecution, left to drown at sea. Or suffocating in the back of lorries. Or thrown into internment camps. Who are then blamed for trying to better their lives.
I hear about people who are exploited, then condemned for their own exploitation.

And the fact of these things is bad enough, but the attitude of so many people which seems to be "to hell with everyone else", is what upsets me the most. A old work colleague of mine, after losing her partner and being unable to continue in her job, suffering from mental illness, was left destitute by benefit sanctions (caused by letters being stolen from the dreadful hostel she'd been placed in after being evicted from her home). She's a normal person who has been destroyed by our so called "society", and now has been left on the scrap heap. I wrote about her, and the comments in response were to the effect: it is her own fault, why should we care?

What have we become?

We are living in a bubble though. Throughout human history the elite have used the masses as a resource to fuel their luxurious lifestyles.

Since the industrial revolution we have been fuelling society by using our fossil fuel resources. Gradually the masses have had a better standard of living, inequality has been reduced.

Those years are coming to an end. They will have the yoke back on us in a couple of generations. Many people realise this, hence the frantic scrabble among the moneyed for their children to climb as high as possible.

The level of corruption scares us.
I can't remember which was the first/ mist major thing, in recent times:
Was it ministers and their expenses? Tony Blair lying about Iraq? Jimmy Saville?

Now, we just dont trust anyone.

I'm not sure that's true Flumpty. I'm someone who could be financially worse off under a left leaning government, but in other ways I'd be better off - I'd expect a better funded NHS, better funded state schools and the like. I think it can depend on what is most important to people, and their level of wealth. I'm someone who is better supported by a Tory government too, but I didnt vote for them only because I completely disagree with what they did under the coalition to disabled people.

And I did acknowledge that there are some people who will vote in the interests of other people, but then on the whole I think those people have the luxury of not having to worry about the impact of being taxed more or having less available from society.

I don't think that people who do vote to the right do it because they are selfish and greedy and want to exploit others, I think they do it because of the principles they have, just the same as people who vote to the left.

Politicians and famous people who seek to rock the boat definitely meet with unfortunate accidents. Sometimes they die unexpectedly young too, of hitherto unsuspected conditions. People with a lower public profile just disappear.

We are living in a bubble though. Throughout human history the elite have used the masses as a resource to fuel their luxurious lifestyles

Erm....what the heck are you going on about?

*OP - you're right. Narcissistic traits are on the rise, a complete lack of empathy and a lack of compassion to anyone other than themselves.

It feels like the world is full of bullies*

Ove the past few years, I've been pleasantly suprised by the kindness my fellow British human beings have shown me in the various citites I've lived in and visited. From the "rough" looking teenage girls who were polite and courteous to me and helped me when my bags broke and I was heavily pregnant, to the white van men who turned around and drove back to me to see if I needed help when they saw me in labour at the side of the road, old ladies who have come over to ask if I was ok and could they help with anything when I was struggling with my high needs son, little children holding doors open/being polite and saying excuse me please to strangers, to the young man who quietly told me "everything will be ok" when he saw me crying before walking off. People donating heavily to charity events, people helping the homeless, people clubbing togather to help when a family member was killed suddenly. The kindess has touched me beyond belief. People forget the good, and only ever see the bad these days.

Roses, I'm talking about the fact that, up until the early twentieth century there was a very clear difference between the lives of the the masses and the elite few in Britain. Working people lived short and brutal lives of hard labour while the aristocracy lived lives of idleness, as had happened for milenia . Then the industrial revolution came along and gradually things improved for ordinary people. Machines did the backbreaking work that people had done.

These anomalous times won't last forever. Resources are running out. Standards of living are dropping for many people. It's getting more and more dog eat dog.

PtolemysNeedle

Being right wing isn't any more selfish than being left wing.

Actually the fundamental tenets of conservatism and neoliberalism are the preservation of the interests of the middle classes, self-sufficiency (and charity for the "deserving poor") instead of a social safety net, and private capital accumulation instead of state redistribution. So I think it's pretty safe to say that right wing ideologies are based on selfishness. Unless you're a poor or working class person voting Tory. Then you're just deluded.

OP, this thread depresses me because I agree with you, but it's also good to see that some people actually care. I just left the Labour party, but if Corbyn wins I'll rejoin.

What rosesanddaisies said. Op YANBU but you do (and I use the term 'you' collectively) need to sometimes regain perspective. There is a huge amount of human kindness around but unfortunately it doesn't sell newspapers. The British public is among the most generous nations when it comes to raising money for charity with people giving what they themselves can barely afford. And I am often bowled over by small acts of kindness, so I savour them and for my part try to do good things for others.

As for the wider political agenda, I agree there is a danger that conservatism and austerity is creating a nation of individuals at risk of neglecting their moral responsibility to others. For this reason I really, really hope people get out and vote at the next General Election. Who knows, we might actually get a party that truly represents the will of the people!

Some people are colder hearted than others. To be honest I am one of those people. I don't feel anything for people in those situations detailed in the OP, I have been guilty of thinking similar things to the commenters.

There are things I care about and get upset about that don't affect me but not those sort of situations the OP is talking about. (I have depression too but I was always like it.)

And yes I would stab someone in the back if I could gain (or at least not lose anything) by doing it. Most people are inherently selfish.

Just out of interest Abbey, would you consider yourself a successful person?

Not hugely - anything I have achieved has mainly been through a combo of good decision making and a shit load of luck. And I haven't had to stab people in the back - it's just that I know I would, iyswim.

I should clarify I'm not a total asshole, just lacking empathy for most people

So if the UK is so dreadfully awful and mean, and France etc has a much more generous welfare state, why do we have people literally camped on the doorstep, killing themselves trying to get in?

ultrathule Look at many other countries in Europe, Scandinavia yes, but also countries like Belgium, the Netherlands - the standard of living is generally higher, and levels of inequality smaller. Every day life is easier for everyone as there is an incentive for public services to work on behalf of the population at large.

I live in The Netherlands and we used to have 1million (out of a population 16.5 million) on long term disability support. About 10 years ago the Government tackled it and its now much reduced. And new disability benefits are usually pegged to your last job, so its in your interests to have a job in the first place, rather than rely on the state minimum.

We pay higher tax here than in the UK (and the tax free allowance is much lower so even low earners pay quite a lot), and its really difficult to find somewhere to rent cheaply (and there are long waiting lists and high fees). I would say the average British person has far more consumer goods and things like a car when quite young than the average Dutch person. We live in smaller houses, or rented rooms without safe windows to escape from in the event of fire, reached by dangerous staircases. I know quite a few people who live in caravans or wooden chalets on recreational parks.

Most cities in The Netherlands also for a long time have had an equivalent to the "bedroom tax" - if you rent in a crowded area from a housing association (as most people do), you are asked to move on if you under-occupy.

What I would say there is is more accountability of public services and local councils.

That's quite interesting Abbey. An old friend of mine recently did something I would consider incredibly wrong to someone. Her reasoning was that she didn't know the other person and her family have benefitted hugely. I am actually quite upset by it and have totally distanced myself from my friend. She has been a fantastic friend to me for decades too.

I can identify with all the concerns expressed in this thread and then some! I'm a higher rate tax payer and London property owner who would be way better off under the Tories but have been a Labour party member for 20 years and will vote for Corbyn. Volunteering can help but my volunteering consists of being a trustee for several charities who have been devastated by coalition cuts over the past 5 years (because they were funded by legal aid, by grant-giving organisations who are now overwhelmed with requests from charities trying to provide services previously provided by the state, and because donations have collapsed, especially for unpopular causes like helping migrants, even those who are survivors of horrible torture). As chair of one charity, I've had to make redundancies amongst longstanding, dedicated low paid staff in roles which directly help the destitute and have set up procedures for determining which of the families waving hungry babies because their benefits have been "sanctioned" should be given our very limited number of food bank vouchers. Staff who have been put on part time working are still working full time for free and buying food for hungry clients out of their own pockets. I work in the City and have donated my bonus for the past few years to these charities but whenever I asked my (very wealthy) employer if they would match the donation they refused, despite splashing around bumper profits and bonuses. It's heartbreaking - I wake up every morning so angry at the heartlessness of my work colleagues who are simply oblivious to the disasters unfolding in our city. I am barely able to listen to or watch news and if I even catch sight of a Daily Mail on the tube I can feel my blood pressure rising. ..........

Assuming that what your ex friend did was legal, I might have done it too. It depends what there is to gain/lose by doing it. Human beings are naturally selfish - I don't expect people to fall over themselves to help me as I wouldn't do it for them.

Weirdly I am quite a loyal friend though!

Equity Fair dos to you and the people who work for free. I don't have an issue with that at all but it's not the kind of work I would do because I don't have the emotional capacity to care about the 'families waving hungry babies' - it's down to the fact that they have made choices at some point in their lives that I would not have made. Not saying it's their fault - I get the reasons why people do what they do - but I wouldn't see it as my responsibility to help them out of the situation.

I think you may be my colleague Abbey. I work with loads of people who are perfectly nice to people try know and like but don't give a sh*t about those they don't know. Is it just a fundamental lack of imagination?

Not a lack of imagination, no. Just an unwillingness to take responsibility for other people's lives and actions.

No it wasn't legal Abbey but she will never be found out. Basically a fraud where she destroyed the evidence. £70000 better off as a result.

I think it's probably just deep rooted cynicism and mistrust of people in general - I would expect others to shit on me from a great height if it suited them.