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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

how would you deal with this fil issue?

88 replies

flanjabelle · 21/07/2015 10:11

Fil Loves dd to pieces, which is great and I know she is lucky to have a doting grandfather. However, he is doing something that makes me feel really uncomfortable. He has always Been very over the top with her, too excited and in her face when she was a tiny baby (examples: repeatedly shouting her name in her face, clapping loudly at her, constantly trying to get her to look at him, not letting any of the other family members hold 'his' baby etc etc). Its got much better as she got older as that level of excitement comes into its own with a toddler I think. Dd now quite enjoys time with him as he plays with her constantly. When she was younger dp and I did have to tell him to calm it down quite a lot as she would become upset and he didn't seem to understand that he was the cause.

There is just the issue of kisses. I just posted this on another thread and realised how much it is bugging me and could do with some advice.

Fil insists on kisses when we arrive and when we leave, whether dd wants them or not. he will not allow her to refuse one and will grab her and kiss her repeatedly on the lips. It makes dd really uncomfortable and she very obviously doesn't like it As she tries to get away and says no. He ignores her response and does it anyway, every time.

He also often will offer her something, such as food, but will only give it to her when she gives him a kiss and repeatedly says please. I don't like this at all, something about it makes me feel really uncomfortable. Its like she has to kiss him and beg before she is allowed the thing he just offered to her. Horrible.

He loves her, and means well, and I don't want to hurt his feelings but it needs to stop. How would you go about this diplomatically? I want dd to know that she has autonomy over her own body, and this is giving the opposite message.

Any help is much appreciated. Thank you.

OP posts:

ProcrastinatorGeneral · 21/07/2015 15:55

I despised being kissed as a small child. Still do to a certain degree. I have so many memories of running to hide at goodbye time. I was considered odd and freakish for it and ridiculed accordingly.

My children kiss only if they want to.

Nanny0gg · 21/07/2015 16:56

I do try and see the best in in-laws as I do think they get a raw deal on here sometimes.

However, I do not like the sound of your FiL. At the very best he is a bully and I do wonder how he's going to be with your DD as she gets older.

It's one thing to behave in such a demanding way with a toddler, but not so easy with a 12 year-old or teenager.

I actually think he's horrible, and I'm not entirely sure that she is lucky to have such 'loving' grandparents in her life.

mikado1 · 21/07/2015 17:25

I don't even kiss my own ds on the lips, just wouldn't occur to me. Hope it goes well next time you meet him.

AspieAndNT · 21/07/2015 18:52

Sorry to be blunt but he sounds like a complete weirdo.

Myname15 · 21/07/2015 19:06

He sounds really weird. Sorry, obviously not seen it myself back it does ring alarm bells.
It is SO important that she is in charge of herself, her body. No one should make her or pressure her to kiss or sit on her lap etc. It undermines the totally fucking vital rule that people can't touch her in any way that causes her to feel uncomfortable. This could make her really vulnerable to sexual abuse. I don't want to sound dramatic but its true. I am not saying he's an abuser but I am saying her right to choose what and who she's comfortable with is paramount, it trumps anyone's feelings of hurt by refusal.
Please speak to your Dh. Explain that for her to be safe in the world she needs to understand her own right to say no. I know this may seem like an overreaction but this is SO important. No means no, even with friendly kisses, and that is her right that should never be met with any weirdness. Good luck with this, and stick to your guns!

FryOneFatManic · 21/07/2015 19:19

steppedonlego
You need to be completely blunt with him. If I were you I would just say "at some point there will be a man in her life who tells her that she has no choice but to kiss them or more, and she needs to know that she can say no. I don't want her taught that she must be physically affectionate when she's unhappy with it."

Totally agree with this, FIL sounds weird.

DS is 11 and while he'd kiss when younger, he's moving away from that, so now he high-fives or fist bumps his grandad, rather than kiss. In a way the pair of them now see this as their "thing" and enjoy it, so they both still feel the affection but in a way that means DS is comfortable with it all.

And that's the key thing, isn't it? Making sure our children are comfortable with the level of physical interaction they have, and knowing they can say "No".

Original poster

flanjabelle · 21/07/2015 20:05

Thanks so much for the replies.

Just to clear something up with the poster who asked why I am not standing up for dd. I have. We have challenged every single one of the behaviours I listed. Throughout the last 21 months we have had conversation after conversation telling him when things aren't ok. This just seemed like a tricky one as he just wants to kiss his granddaughter, but I am not happy with it.

I have spoken to dp and as expected he is 100% on board. He is going to step in when we see them at the weekend and say, no she doesn't want a kiss, and that's ok. He will then give a brief explanation of body autonomy and explain why this is so important to us.

When I spoke to dp about it, he realised himself just how wrong the message being sent to dd is and wants to put an immediate stop to it.

He also said he would kick his dad in the balls if he doesn't listen, but I think he was joking.

OP posts:

HermioneWeasley · 21/07/2015 20:06

He's a controlling bully. Don't worry about "hurting his feelings" your DD needs you much, much more.

Original poster

flanjabelle · 21/07/2015 20:06

Oh and yes, fil is weird. 100% weird.

OP posts:

Myname15 · 21/07/2015 20:08

Sorry, just seen the other posts, and seems I was very late n the game with my post. As as beeen said, steppedonlego's advice is great. Lots of us find this difficult, I would, and practical advice is great. I tend to just snap which don't help. Definitely though, he he gets upset, fuck it. Sounds like he could do wit being put in his place

Original poster

flanjabelle · 21/07/2015 20:11

I also pointed out another situation to dp that I wasn't happy with and he agreed. when we saw them last week, fil offered dd an orange. she said yes, and went to run towards the kitchen. He said 'ERM, excuse me??' In a cross voice, and refused to go to the kitchen with her to get it until she came back and held his hand to go there. The kitchen is next to the lounge, she was perfectly capable of going by herself.

Again, it's forced contact that she didn't want and only did because she wanted the Orange he had offered her. It just wasn't nice and made me uncomfortable.

OP posts:

Hellion7433 · 21/07/2015 20:17

'Say please and give grandad a kiss, then you can have the food'

'Don't be silly FIL, here take this DD' remove the food from grandad and give it to DD

Grandad 'Give me a kiss'

You 'don't be silly grandad, come on DD lets get in the car now'

fastdaytears · 21/07/2015 20:33

So pleased for your dd that you and your dp are united on this. It all sounds so odd- but in reality is just a more extreme version of what many GP (and others) think is acceptable. More awareness of body autonomy can only be a good thing.
Some children like to hug and kiss all the time, some like to some of the time, some none of the time. Why should it be assumed that physical affection is always comfortable for everyone?

TheHouseOnBellSt · 21/07/2015 20:39

I think that's great OP...that your DH is going to step in but I also think that you need to speak up. That's because you're a woman and it's very important for both DD and FIL to see that your voice is JUST as important as a man's.

mikado1 · 21/07/2015 20:45

I also think it's important that he doesn't guilt trip dd when she doesn't want to. .watch out for that being next step. .

Original poster

flanjabelle · 21/07/2015 20:45

Don't worry thehouse dd has seen me pulling fil up on unacceptable behaviour a few times already, but I will add my two pennies too.

I dont think I am too worried about dd knowing a woman can make her point heard... I'm rather outspoken myself. I call a spade a spade in most situations and have no problem speaking my mind.

OP posts:

marshmallowpies · 21/07/2015 21:12

I remember a thread about birthday parties where someone mentioned a FIL who carried his granddaughter around for the entire party so that she couldn't play with any of her friends - this must have been you, OP? I remember feeling so sorry for the poor girl who just wanted to play and enjoy her party!

I also remember how determined my DD1 would have been at that age when being picked up against her will (sometimes, obviously, being done by us as a necessity to get her into the buggy or whatever) - she would thrash around and say 'Me down! Me down!' The idea of forcing her into physical contact she didn't want is such an unfair thing to do to a small child.

DD1 is sometimes a little shy with my (lovely) DF and (pleasant but rather remote) FIL and they have never made a fuss when she was shy of kissing them. Waving bye or blowing kisses is offered as an alternative, or as my DNiece used to say 'I don't do kisses, I do hugs' - for years she wouldn't kiss anyone and that was fine!

Original poster

flanjabelle · 21/07/2015 21:29

That wasn't me. Oh dear there are more of them out there. What is wrong with these people?

Dd would say 'down! Down!' at home, but when surrounded by lots of family members that she doesn't know, she goes quite shy and doesn't say much, so ends up going along with it. :(

OP posts:

Phineyj · 21/07/2015 21:31

Yikes, you have spent 21 months being assertive about this? And FIL still hasn't got the message? It's all about him, isn't it - to be honest I don't see why it benefits your DD at all.

Downtheroadfirstonleft · 21/07/2015 21:48

I am so glad that you are going with your gut feeling on this.

No one should be kissed on the mouth (or other form of "affection"), against their will, by someone who has on some occasions scared them and who does not stop, even when repeatedly told to do so.

CrapBag · 21/07/2015 22:34

Urgh, he is giving me the creeps. Big time! Ok he may love his DGD but why does he want so much close physical contact all the time! The hand thing was pointless and weird. He is a controlling bully who's contact should actually be limited tbh.

I'm glad your DH is completely on board. Your DD has every right not to be pawed at by an adult for their own gratification and control.

My nan adores me DCs and is close with them but DS went through a weird phase where he would never hug or kiss her. She would ask but always always leave it when he wouldn't. She would never dream of forcing him. Now he has grown out of that phase, she is one of the very few that he will hug and kiss, apart from me and DH. Left alone he came around in his own time. Your stupid FIL is risking alienating her completely.

TaliZorahVasNormandy · 21/07/2015 22:47

So he doesnt listen to you. He dominates his wife. Doesnt listen to his GD's distress.

It sounds like he doesnt think a female's wants and opinions matter.

He sounds like an arse tbh. You should remove DD from the situation if she gets stressed.

TaliZorahVasNormandy · 21/07/2015 22:50

Treat FIL like a toddler. If he gets pushy and persistent, say "She doesnt like that" and walk away with her.

Original poster

flanjabelle · 22/07/2015 06:50

Yes it is all about him. He has always had to show what a fantastic grandfather he is And I think this is an extension of that. If dd is kissing him and holding his hand, that must mean he's a brilliant grandad, if that makes sense?

both pils are like this, it's very weird. They have to portray to the outside world that they are the best gps, most supportive parents (not true for dp or bil), have a wonderful marriage (no they don't), lots of money (they brag about the cost of things even though it has put them in debt). It's all about what it looks like to others, when the reality is completely different.

It has taken me years to work out the bat shit crazy dynamic of their family. now I understand it, and just try not to let it affect me.

At this point, anything that bothers dd is challenged, if she isn't happy we make excuses and go, so it's not affecting her, but as she gets older we will be monitoring the situation very closely to make sure she is ok.

How I wish dp had normal parents.

OP posts:

Original poster

flanjabelle · 22/07/2015 06:51

The annoying thing is they have told other members of dps family that I am overprotective of dd, which isn't true. I'm quite a relaxed parent around most people... Just not them.

OP posts:

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