To wonder why people in receipt of Working Tax Credits are considered in the same vein as "benefit scroungers"

[shrunkenhead]

I was under the impression that those people in receipt of WTCs DO work (hence the name) but are poorly paid so the government bump it up with these credits so they can afford to live. So you have to work to claim them.... However lately I have heard several people say they are glad the government are slashing these benefits and talk of them along similar lines to JSA/DLA etc etc generally benefit bashing "just get a job" etc etc.
So, am I missing something? Have I got it all wrong? I thought WTCs were all about "making work pay"....?

Definitely jellybean. It's divide and rule too, if Cameron and the media labelled everyone earning less than £25k a scrounger, he'd get a riot. But by dividing people up to imply some are more worthy than others those under £25k earnings are all nicely occupied flinging mud at each other about who's deserving and who's a scrounger. Not to mention all those earning over that who genuinely care about those less well off. Much better for camercunt to wind up the struggling low/ average wage families with 'oh yes it's unfair you go out all day to work with your 2 kids while all those feckless jsa claimants sit on their arses living on your wages' 'yes of course it's unfair your wage and tax credits give you the same to live on as the feckless unemployed couple with 4 kids so let me put a stop to it'. And done like that the low/ average earner isn't really going to be anything but ok with the changes.

My sister is the staff manager of a care home and she struggles to get people to agree to working more than 16 hours because by the time the tax credits are deducted it means people working more hours for less money. The whole system is flawed and has to change. Working part time should mean less money, not more.

Lots of people won't work more than the limits because its not garenteed work long term though. If your family is only just surviving using wtc why would anyone accept some overtime knowing it will likely only be for a few weeks but will loose them tcs for much longer?

Cherriesand apples (trying really hard to remember that correctly.....) Prior to wtc there was married man's tax allowance (increased personally allowance by a few thousand) and a single parent equivilant (I remember my mum getting it). It didn't add up to the same amount but proportionally it still gave a tax break to families. Only it wasn't means tested. Presumably if you had kids prior to wtc then you will have benefited from this. TCS effectively took this 'benefit' from the rich who didn't really notice it and gave it to the poor who couldn't afford the rise in living costs.

In fairness pre wtc people had cheaper housing even in the private sector and social housing was much more easily available.

yes, disabled people and their carers are benefit scroungers too, according to the media, and I HATE being in the stigma of that too.

Thnaks to channel 4 and 5 and their endless glorification of benefit cheats (and they srill get away with it) the genuine have to be tarred with the same brush.

The problem isn't that pay is too low; it's that the cost of living is too high, and that's mainly housing.

This government has successfully demonised poor working people by labelling many claimants as feckless, when in fact most are in work and simply don't make enough to meet the outrageous cost of housing.

" Thnaks to channel 4 and 5 and their endless glorification of benefit cheats (and they srill get away with it) the genuine have to be tarred with the same brush."

I have watched a few of those shows now and could not identify anyone in it as a 'benefit cheat' tbh. What I saw were unfortunate, undereducated people living in economically depressed areas.

We have to rise above this idea and its language.

I work 3 jobs, all with adults and children with disablities, but according to DC, GO et al I'm feckless and lazy

We were on family credit years ago nobody was as vicious about working benefits as they are now tbf it was pre internet forums and ch5 telly rubbish

Lots of people who receive tax credits are far from poor. People use them so they can either choose to work part-time or choose to be a SAHP. That is not what tax credits were set up for. So I'm glad they're changing.

I work in part-time low paid job (shift work) because we need to make ends meet. If I worked full time my childcare would negate my working at all so I prefer this. DP works full time for the prison service.

By all means call me a scrounger. I'd give up my £3.53 a week working tax credit if working actually paid.

How much do you get from Wtc and ctc? I can't imagine that it is actually very much, but many people use the term 'topping up' (a low wage) when referring to Wtc & ctc. What sums are we actually talking about?

Also, when people say they are to loose X amount of Wtc per year, what does this refer to?

Sorry, to clarify, I know there are cuts as a result of the new budget, but will be grateful if someone can explain what this means in reality, for people. Is this because of the universal credit thing?

wesail - it varies wildly depending on your earnings.
I would put how much I get but I dont think it would go down well.

Quote by Chris Rock about nmw...

“I used to work at McDonald's making minimum wage. You know what that means when someone pays you minimum wage? You know what your boss was trying to say? "Hey if I could pay you less, I would, but it's against the law.”

I think the main answer to your question is because the cons have brain washed society to think like this. It was one of their first stunts to conquer and divide.

"How much do you get from Wtc and ctc? I can't imagine that it is actually very much"

It depends how many hours you work, how much you earn and how many children you have.

A single parent with 2 children working 30hrs at £7.20 (what will be the 'living wage') gets gross pay of just over 11k and 9k in tax credits.

Next year they'll get 7.4k in tax credits instead.

Wesail you can refer to the current rates and allowances table on .gov.uk. You can then plug in the budget changes to see the effect on whatever your chosen normal family looks like. For some the reduction in the income disregard and the increase in the claw back rate to 48% will lead to a substantial drop in TC.

You are correct to bring up Universal Credit. This is much less generous than TC and over time new entrants will be excluded from TC after full roll out of UC.

The 2 child limit was imo the headline grabbing red herring to distract from all of this.

VivienneMary

I have agreed with some of your points recently as I think deep down you do care about the cuts.
Would you please do me the favour of listening to this.

WTC and TC do not normally afford a family to have a sahp, in fact this is why we have so many dual income families.
For some of us who have very low outgoings the small top up we receive will enable us to be a sahp. However, it does not pay anything near a wage or a substantial amount like many people suggest. Nor do I think it should do, of course not.
Through frugality some people can just about manage on one wage and a small top up but ime friends and family who have the same income as me and dh couldn't manage on what they would get from tax credits so both work. Financially, this is mainly down to higher mortgages/rent, running 2 cars, and lifestyle choices.

I'm a bit sceptical that the "living wage" will actually happen. (I'm very sceptical that mortgage interest relief on btl will be constrained).

I work a 40 hour week. I also attend uni on day release and I'm a single mother.

I get wtc and ctc but from next year will have my entire working tax credits award written off as I will earn 'too much'. Yeah 14k is fucking loads.

A week or two before the budget announcement the government changed the way child poverty is defined. Precisely because they knew the budget would plunge thousands more kids below the breadline. Mine being one of them.

Anyone that voted Tory without the brains to realise they would attack the working poor is a fucking idiot. And those that voted them in knowing what they would do are cunts.

I certainly don't want tax credits to be taken away from people who are disabled or looking after a disabled family member. But I do want things like people running their own hobby business and topping up with tax credits to be looked at. Nobody wants people paid at the minimum wage working full time to lose out. But tax credits are paid to people with a household income of £65K (this would include childcare). But even so that is totally crazy IMHO. People on £12K a year need tax credits. People on £65K shouldn't be getting them.

You don't get tax credits to top up to £65k a year. Nowhere near. The only possible exception I suppose is perhaps if you had dc with multiple complex needs and the majority of that was payment for multiple carers/ respite and even then I doubt even rare extreme situations get anywhere near that

When TC were first introduced the family element of CTC was paid to all up to £50k income and then phased out above this, much like CB now. This was the first thing that was axed 5 years ago.

They started out as a benefit for almost every family raising children with top ups to bring lower earners closer to the middle and incentives to "make work pay" for certain groups.

But Vivienne Many businesses are going to fold when UC comes in because of the new ruling that really doesn't fit with running a business.
Many small businesses may appear to be a hobby business but the owners take it very serious and of course want growth.
Maybe, a few people have started a business and not worked at it and taken tax credits but I would hazard a guess they are the same small percentage as those who can afford a sahp or claim fraudulently.
We have been sold all this as part of government spin so people who don't understand the system or it doesn't apply to them can rub their hands together and speculate at all the scroungers in the country.
People need to open their eyes and learn about the welfare system even if it doesn't apply to them.