To wonder why people in receipt of Working Tax Credits are considered in the same vein as "benefit scroungers"

[shrunkenhead]

I was under the impression that those people in receipt of WTCs DO work (hence the name) but are poorly paid so the government bump it up with these credits so they can afford to live. So you have to work to claim them.... However lately I have heard several people say they are glad the government are slashing these benefits and talk of them along similar lines to JSA/DLA etc etc generally benefit bashing "just get a job" etc etc.
So, am I missing something? Have I got it all wrong? I thought WTCs were all about "making work pay"....?

But it also costs time and money to move to a (possibly) better paid job, training/going back to college etc and many better paid jobs dont work around school hours so you'd spend a fortune putting them in holiday clubs etc. It's very difficult.

By any logical analysis SMEs should love WTCs. It is always the small business lobby who takes fright and complains when a rise to NMW is mooted.

It won't take full effect until 2020 Spartan.

TC cuts start next year.

I have heard that you can only clsim CTCs for your first two children, but not the rest. Isn't that similar to CB? There was a time when people thought women were having more and more kids to get more Child Benefit.

I know DLA is not an out of work benefit but peoplein receipt of it dont work

Get your facts right before you come out with statements like that.

I'm in receipt of DLA (lower rate mobility and lower rate care) and I work. I don't qualify for WTC etc.

I agree the NMW needs increasing to a Living Wage. I know the government have said they'll increase it by 2020 but surely it walls in line with inflation anyway so low earners wont be any better off.

The increase in nwm (when it comes in) and the increased personal allowance won't make up the WTC short fall for most families

I think people have many different view about wtc and other benefits. I don't think the majority claiming any benefits (in work or not) are scroungers, but others wd disagree. The daily mail and Murdoch's press make any benefit claiments out to be lazy scum, and many people are highly influenced by media.

DLA and now pips, are in place because its acknowledged that being disabled costs people more money- for example someone with mobility issues may require a mobility car or to pay for taxis to and from work- DLA allows them to cover these extra costs so that they are not out of pocket. Equaly many parents claiming dla for their children will still work, but childcare for children with disability's is often harder to access so they maybe limited to the hours they can work, or need to pay more for a nanny who has experience of children with disabilities. Or the may perhaps have to pay more for food for kids with intolerances or easy to prepare foods because their kids require a lot of hands on care. Living with disabilitys costs- dla/pips is in place so people with disabilities can access equal opportunities without being out of pocket.

Op it's the first 2 children from 2017. Any children born before them can be claimed for.

If bosses paid a decent wage no taxpayer would need to pay WTC.

Talking of jobs they don't even pay much more than they did some 20 odd years ago ,,,

The £7.20 NMW is also only for over 25s. I'm clearly not enough of a grown up with my marriage, mortgage and kids at 24.

I agree the NMW needs increasing to a Living Wage. I know the government have said they'll increase it by 2020 but surely it walls in line with inflation anyway so low earners wont be any better off.

And it still won't be a proper "Living Wage" for that very reason. George O has stolen the term and distorted it.

www.livingwage.org.uk/what-living-wage

Aren't there a lot of people who only work 16 hours in order to get wtc when they could work more hours (and a normal working week for those in full time work without benefits is 37+ hours)? Perhaps that is why some people may look at some people on wtc in that way?

Yes, probably steiner but I would guess most of those work part time due to the high cost of childcare or caring responsibilities not because they want to play the system.

I work or because I chose to when married ( not claiming ctc/ wtc) and when he left me and our three children work ( public sector) had a hiring freeze and thus far I have been unable to increase my hours. My pay is also frozen at 1% for the next 4 years and wtc cut by almost £2000

Thank you permanentrecord, I get it now. It's kind that someone took the time to explain rather than defensively telling me to "educate myself"!

Yes, possibly. God Labour really screwed up the country big time!

Diploddycus, I agree. Can you claim anything for childcare if, for example, you work 40 hours a wk but still have to claim WTC or CTC?

Like others have said, WTC top ups can discourage people from taking on more hours as they are no better off. I have a friend who is a lone parent with one dd aged 15. She works 16 hours a week( despite her dd being 15 years old and having close support from family and her dd's dad) in a low paid job and gets hefty top ups. She won't work more hours as she has worked out that she will be no better off. I can't say I blame her, it is the system that allows it that is all wrong.

I think so shrunkenhead, I'm not sure though. I think it all depends on how much you earn and how much the childcare costs. I have often thought low earners with high childcare costs can't win when it comes to tax credits. The more they work, the more childcare they need and then they're entitled to more tax credits for childcare. So "work more" probably costs the tax credit system about the same.

Because the tories think that people are just not working hard enough minimum wage earners should work longer hours damit ! WTC is a lifeline for families and taking it away will plunge parents and their children into further poverty they will need to chose between rent and food maybe have to give up work altogether because they cant afford the childminder it really boils my piss! Of course you get folk that work the system but for every1 bet there is 10 that don't

Thatcher selling off council housing while putting minimal profits back into replenishing affordable housing that respected communities needs didn't help either.This had the knock on effect of artificially inflating the housing market which in turn had a significant impact on the economy making day to day living costs out of reach of normal hard working families. It's not all labours fault, they fucked up sorting out the torys fuck up, and now the Tory's are fucking up sorting out labours fuck up. Only I'm pretty sure this government are more than happy to have the excuse to start dismantling the welfare state.

Yes, I can see why those with small children are limited in the hours they work as few jobs fit in well with school hours and it's why everyone wants a job in a school.

permenantrecord I agree its an endless cycle of clearing up mess

Yeah termtime jobs are like hens teeth

I think it's it's symptomatic of attitudes of very well paid people saying things like 'I deserve £100,000 a year because I work really hard.' They obviously think that people who are paid badly don't work hard. I think they are wrong. I also imagine that those same high earners say that if low earners worked hard enough or had enough ambition they too could be paid £100,000 but it doesn't work that way. In the jobs market must be 80% poorly paid, 15% be reasonably paid and 5% very well paid. It doesn't matter how hard the bottom 80% work because they can't all get into the top 5%.