to ask for a justification of inset days

[5Foot5]

Really, really don't want to sound like I am teacher-bashing here. This is a genuine question.

There is a story being discussed on the news programme about a school which has decided to have all of its inset days at one go so that parents could potentially take advantage of term time prices for holidays. This got me thinking about the timing of inset days generally.

I assume that these days are used for training and /or acquainting staff with the myriad changes imposed on them all the time by government.

But, here is the question, why do these days have to be taken during what would otherwise be term time? Why are they not held during the school holidays when there is surely enough capacity to accommodate these days?

Can i add that I am no longer affected by this since DD has now left school but it really has only just occurred to me..

Labour has warned of widespread teacher shortages across the country, as new figures reveal that applications to join the profession have declined by 27,000 in the last 12 months.

The shadow education secretary, Tristram Hunt, accused the Tories of “storing up serious trouble”, with missed recruitment targets, falling applications and the number of teachers quitting the profession at a 10-year high.
www.theguardian.com/education/2015/may/05/labour-warns-teacher-shortages-england-tristram-hunt

Yep, everyone with a degree just can't wait to be a teacher

I agree it should be a wider discussion. After all INSETs weren't round until
1988 so probably time to be reviewed.
Most schools need similar training - up to date first aid certification, maybe food hygiene or Team Teach training and a bit of latest thinking on disability teaching. Why that needs every school to always have five days is a bit odd. A large secondary must have different needs to a small village primary?

noblegiraffe, I suppose it depends on what other country is doing the observing. Parents in the US would probably think we have it pretty cushty, what with them only getting 2 weeks off work a year and shelling out for their kids to go to holiday camp for 3 months in the summer and many women not working once they become parents as a result of that. On the other hand, parents in countries like France, Sweden, Holland, Finland, Belgium, Germany, Switzerland etc would be horrified that there wasn't some kind of joined-up freely accessible state-subsidised affordable childcare provision that enabled the country's workforce to do their jobs without having to take time away from them in order that teachers access necessary training.

Talkin I work at an academy with excellent results. We had an unscheduled Ofsted recently because despite great headline figures, they were concerned about PP students.

Academies certainly shouldn't be complacent.

Do you not claim childcare vouchers, cruikshank?

The point is surely that parents in America KNOW that they need to shell out for holiday camp, parents in most of Europe KNOW that there is state subsidised childcare provision and parents in England KNOW that there are 190 days of school and childcare is needed for the rest. It shouldn't come as a surprise to any one.

Get your application in windchime if you think the job's so great, instead of sitting behind your keyboard goading.

Teachers teach children for 190 days a year.

They do an awful lot of work on the days they aren't teaching too.

Eg, DD's teacher will be at school all this week moving classrooms.

Sorry - that was for windchime

Revealall - each school will have it's own whole school needs such as child protection, each department will then have its own needs such as preparing for the new GCSE specs, then teachers will have their own needs such as motivating that group of disaffected MFL students in y8, plus there will be management training needs plus there are national initiatives. There be some overlap from school to school but really the needs within and between schools are very diverse.

It shouldn't come as a surprise to any one.

Right you are. But does that mean that nothing should improve, ever? If other countries have found ways of making things work, of keeping their teachers up to date and incidentally outstripping us in every way imaginable in terms of educational achievements , surely we should be looking to them, rather than saying 'That's how things are; suck it up'.

Students have their full entitlement to 190 days. Parents need to get over the fact that that they will not get more days in school.

It is economic pressures pushing parents for more government provided childcare. Not many are willing to take unpaid leave for whatever reason.

Plus students need a break too. Some young pupils spens more time with teachers and childcare clubs than they do with their parents.

Of course things can and do change! Much of the Child protection refresher training-compulsory each year- is now done online, so it can be done in "my" time rather than in INSET training time and more and more training will follow. But at present the 5 INSET days still exist and parents have to organise childcare for them!

Cruikshank: "that enabled the country's workforce to do their jobs without having to take time away from them in order that teachers access necessary training."
Ffs, are we still on this? Working parents covering teachers' training days is NOT TAKING TIME AWAY FROM YOUR JOB. If there were no Inset days, you would still have those days to cover, regardless of when in the year they are, and MOST of them are already tacked onto existing holidays. Your 25 days of holiday would not go any further if the government agreed to ditch Inset and give teachers back that (unpaid) holiday.

And neither is it the case that "everyone with a degree is topping up to be one." There is a serious recruitment (and retention) crisis.

Also, it's worth saying, yet again (sigh) that teachers are only paid for 195 days, plus a statutory holiday period (certainly not 13 weeks) in line iwht other workers.

Tiggy - don't engage with Teacher Haters. Those sorts of people are one of the reasons we are struggling to recruit new teachers in secondary schools.

They will always have something to moan about with regards schools and teachers and their own 'treasure' but fail to recognise that without rules there is disorder.

What about moving to a 3 day weekend? So everyone, pupils, teachers, parents, does a continental style four day week. Everyone has Friday to Sunday off.

So this would take 52 days (roughly) off school holidays every year.

That leaves 4.5 weeks of school holiday per year to be covered by childcare. Once you had a bit of time off at Christmas and Easter, that'd be your lot.

So, no time off for family holidays, but no pesky school holidays to have to sort out childcare for either...?

cruikshank
If other countries have found ways of making things work, of keeping their teachers up to date and incidentally outstripping us in every way imaginable in terms of educational achievements , surely we should be looking to them, rather than saying 'That's how things are; suck it up'

Please could you link to evidence for that assertion
as it is not borne out by proper analysis of the data

remember that PISA is discredited because Shanghai is not a country ....
geography clearly not their strong point

"If other countries have found ways of making things work, of keeping their teachers up to date..."

And we in the UK have too. They're called Inset days and were taken off teachers' existing holidays, leaving the kids' holidays untouched, so as to avoid inconveniencing parents. Oh, wait...

Please could you link to evidence for that assertion
as it is not borne out by proper analysis of the data

Absolutely!

I'm losing track of which teacher hating I'm on. For my own clarity, active at present we have:

1. Teacher are whinging bastards who shouldn't get time off 2)INSET days are a teacher's revenge on parents (that's this one)
2. Teachers don't deal with bullying, they are all liars

Did I miss any?

I'm on all three too! Putting me in a right grump, I can tell you. Thank f* I'm on holiday for the next 6 months.

Oooh, which is the teachers are all liars one, I've missed it!

SHHHHHH. clam. Don't gloat about holidays. NOt on this one. Do that one the teachers are whinging bastards thread. Much more annoying.