To already be fed up with teachers/eduaction workers posting about their long holiday!

[Freshlysqueezed]

Facebook is swarming with people saying how much they deserve it and other people patting them on the back. It seems like the world and his wife are in education or SAHM's with 6 glorious weeks ahead of them. Apart from a one week holiday I have a juggling timetable of various childcare arrangements to run to and fro from.

Let's not engage in teacher bashing threads please. We can leave that sort of behaviour until term time.

We shall not enjoy our unpaid vacation whilst you enjoy your paid vacations (unless you are taking unpaid leave to look after your own children)

Those of you with appropriate qualifications may wish to consider joining the profession and see what it is like working at the coal face.

Please, fellow teachers, do not be goaded by the 'teacher haters'. Smile and move on

Ok fair enough "Flat*.

Raven I now earn a bit less than half what I was earning in teaching. They could offer to triple or quadruple my salary and I wouldn't go back. I just couldn't stick the micromanagement and lack of respect from management again.

I'm not 100% sure what GPs are on, so I don't want to say something incorrect. My friends all went down the surgical/hospital route and they were on £21k plus some additional pay for on-call and night shifts. Obviously the salary increases, and most doctors after 20 years will probably be earning more than most teachers after 20 years. Things aren't that black and white though because they will have to pay a lot of money for things like insurance, exams, text books for exams etc.

It's not really relevant, but I'm on £32k pa. If I were in London at a big firm I'd be on a fair amount more, but if I did a different type of law I may be on quite a bit less (eg Criminal). It's not a hell of a lot more than teachers, especially considering the holiday point Jade made. I'd also add that it took me 6 years of studying (although you can do it in 4) then 2 years of a training contract before I qualified. During that training contract stage, employers are only required to pay minimum wage, although a lot will pay more than that.

Happy holidays everyone (there is an oversupply of lawyers anyway - come an be a teacher instead)

I've googled it, & in terms of average salary they can expect roughly twice what a teacher can expect to earn.

Are you quite junior as yet? £32k is actually rather less than a top of pay scale teacher.

I'm fairly sure teachers actually train for as long as solicitors.. 3 years degree, 1 year PGCE, 1 year NQT before being "qualified". Also in with that is that if you don't pass your NQT first time, there is no resit, you can't teach.

Seems the two years after undergrad are the same as solicitors doing an LPC and then a training contract no?

Then we add in the fact that teachers actually are only paid for their contracted hours. If you think I can get the job done in 32.5 hours in the week your off your rocker. We get 28 days paid holiday (inc BH obvs) just like everything else, and the holidays are part of our "package".

Yes EVERYONE works hard, EVERYONE has put in graft to be where they are, but there are no solicitor/other occupation bashing threads on here every other week.

Yes, teachers work hard, yes they work more than their hours. In response to a previous remark made about my post on working every Sunday. Fuck yes it entitles me to a bit more hol. Now I'll be honest, its not every Sunday, but the vast majority. If I do 35 x6 hours on a Sunday across the year it means that I've worked 210 hours above my paid hours. Actually divide that by what I'm paid for a week and I've done 6.14 weeks.

Ok, lets take this game further, 32.5 hours a week is teaching time plus 2.5 hours for meetings. Where do you think marking and planning come in? I reckon at busy times I work 20 odd hours extra during the week plus my Sunday. Its easy to do, only two hours extra per day. Again its not every week, so lets say again on average its 35 weeks, it means I've worked 21 extra weeks than what my "hours" are just doing that!

I contribute 9.9% of my pre tax income to my "gold plated" pension and will do for a long time to come. My self and my colleagues come in sick, tired, etc.

I know that its part of the job, I volunteered for it, and yes I love it, its rewarding. But please can we not bash teachers all over?

All jobs are hard, all come with "benefits" unless you are on the bottom rung. As previously pointed out Mumsnet posters on the one hand want motivated, dynamic and caring teachers, on the other they want to pay them peanuts and tell them how easy their lives are.

But I'm guessing no one read this, doesn't pander to your prejudices enough.

www.payscale.com/research/UK/Job=Solicitor/Salary

Yes - I'm still quite junior. Certainly not a newbie, but less than 5 years qualified. My salary won't go up much each year. If I make partner, I could be on quite a bit more, but that would take another 10+ years and sacrifices I wouldn't be prepared to make (eg probably having to send kids to boarding school due to work commitments. Each to their own and I respect why people need to do this, but personally I wouldn't be prepared to do this). As such, I'll never be a really high earner. That's fine though as long as I feel mentally stimulated by what I do. If that stops, I'll move on!

For my salary I'm contracted to do 40 hours per week. I have never done this and don't know any lawyers that do (certainly not on a regular basis). On a good week I'll do 60ish and on a bad week it will be over 100. Like you, and many other jobs, there's no concept of 'overtime'. It sucks for all of us. Sadly it's the way things are that we're all given more and more to do, for less money and in worse conditions.

Wow - bonuses, commissions and profit sharing. No wonder fees are so high!

Larant - that's probably accurate for the salary. But remember that many partners at the big City firms will be on £500k so that inflates things somewhat!

Many firms operate bonus schemes and a recent study showed 25% of solicitors got a bonus last year. I assume profit sharing refers to equity partners but I may be wrong. These are partners who are not paid any salary but instead receive a proportion of their firms' profits each year. I have no idea what commissions would be paid and what they would relate to?! I've certainly never heard of a solicitor getting commission. I'm sure someone will know what this is/what type of solicitor would receive a commission!

I know many people assume solicitors are paid much more than most actually are.

And no, many jobs above entry level grade have no perks.

Anyway, I need to head to bed soon. Otherwise I can't really complain about being tired at work!

Larant - it's the same with all jobs. Teachers will find it frustrating when people think they work 9-3:30; Lawyers will find it frustrating when people think they're paid a packet. It's always frustrating to know the truth and be arguing your point when people have formed a view on the basis of incorrect information.

Anyway...SLEEP TIME!

Flat is all wiki'd out.

Flat

"My point about vocations such as medicine and law, where there are harder entrance requirements and longer periods of training, is that they will naturally weed people out."

The amount of people that are "weeded out" of teaching is a large amount. Many don't make it through the PGCE (or QTS degree), many don't make it through their NQT year, then there are the attrition rates at years 3 and 5.

also if you are not too bothered about the entry level requirements for teaching then why are you going on about them?

Larant - those figures for solicitors are based on reports from just under 2000 reports. There are over 100000 solicitors working in the UK in a huge variety of areas and average salaries are as misleading as comparing a nqt with a super head.

Also solicitors do 3 or 4 years after degree - one year law conversion of they haven't done a law degree, lpc, 2 year training contract.

It shouldn't be about who has it hardest. I think many people do genuinely accept teaching is a hard job. It is not the only hard job or necessarily the hardest job in the world. That doesn't detract from its value or importance.

Okay average salaries may be misleading for solicitors. But I know ordinary solicitors working in the provincial town I live in, do not earn the inflated salaries of popular imagination. Of course some solicitors do earn a lot of money, in very particular fields and locations.

I absolutely agree with that Citrine - I do think some teachers have a tendency to think their job is The hardest, Ever, No competition!

It is annoying though when you can't enjoy a holiday :)

Well even super heads don't get the million pound bonuses of these 'top' legal peeps. Lawyers protest too much methinks.

Lovely waking up to my unpaid holiday

I will just say before this post I think as a teacher I am fairly well paid - most people would like to earn more but I don't think I am badly paid. This is just pointing out some facts.

Having just looked on the BMA website by the end of an F2 rotation a doctor will be on £31,748. I appreciate they need a lot more training/education etc so its deserved. The pay scales I have just looked at make some almighty jumps with maximum whilst still training being £47,000. My nursing friends get quite a significant number of days holiday which although does include a bank holiday allowance is still generous as I said before teachers get 1 bank holiday a year not in a school holiday.

However after the equivalent of 7 years teaching (I was started slightly up the pay scale due to prior experience and have only done 6) I am on less than this for a standard class teacher role. I could be on more if I took on responsibilities - have just dropped the one I had due to having a small baby and value the time with her over the money and we can afford it.

I previously worked in the private sector left that job 9 years ago and was on significantly more after 6 years in that role when I left than I am on now - with lots of lovely perks included.

As I have said previously and also to my students when they find out my past life - I am 100x happier teaching than I was in my past career - I love my job and my students, I love the holidays. I hate how people seem to have bought into the governments 'all teachers are work shy slackers' mainly due to Mr Gove but has been going on for decades. There are a lot of misconceptions about lots of peoples jobs - I am sure people have seen the posts on FB this weekend about what doctors actually do at weekends. The constant belittling of others and race for the bottom does in fact do little to improve this country.

The competitive hardship thing is ridiculous. It reminds me of SAHM/WOHM threads where people say things like "I go to work for a rest".

Where are all these restful jobs in reality? I and most people I know, regardless of field, work long hours in a high pressure environment, often with a level of responsibility which is not necessarily linked to high remuneration. Taking work home in the evenings/weekends is the norm, constant email/mobile contact is expected. I rarely ever have a sick day, and when I do, I will be emailing work, rearranging meetings etc as much as I am physically able.

I'm not a teacher and I'm really looking forward to the summer holidays. I am working for all but 2 weeks, but childcare is all sorted (months ago!), there is no homework to worry about, no after school activities, no having to remember school trip money/football boots/costumes for this that and the other! My DCs are shattered and need a break, and so do I!

May - 100000 lawyers don't either. Are those people not allowed to mention it when it is assumed that s criminal legal aid solicitor earns the same as a corporate partner at Linklaters?

Hint. They don't.

This seems relevant to the discussion here:

www.theguardian.com/education/2015/jun/17/highly-trained-respected-and-free-why-finlands-teachers-are-different

Regarding training, back in 19oatcake when I trained, I did a 4 year B Ed honours and then it was a 2 year probationary period in Scotland. So, 6 years to be fully qualified as a primary school teacher.