Emotional affair and work issue

[zeezeek]

I'm currently leading a team of about 10 people in getting an application together for a large programme grant to do a piece of research. All very important for the department etc and the team were handpicked for their expertise and nothing to do with departmental politics.

Anyway, one of the men has apparently developed feelings towards another (female) member of the team. It is a small, incestuous world we live in so their paths have crossed before and they have always been fairly friendly. However, now he seems to have more than friendship feelings towards her. Nothing will happen, however, because he's married and she's a lesbian. It has been a kind of open secret in the team, but we have all tried to ignore it. They don't work in the same institution (she's about 200 miles away from him) and, even if we get the money, they will only see each other a few times a year at most and they are both very professional. I don't know if they've discussed it between themselves.

Anyway, last week we were all at a departmental party piss up and this chap's wife was there and someone (not sure who) told her about his husband's crush. She took it very badly and ended up shouting at her DH, then shouting at the poor woman concerned (even though she was there and obviously with her GF) and accusing us all of being complicit in the affair.

Today I get a call from her demanding that I remove her DH from my grant application so that he won't work with this other woman again. Her DH was actually at a meeting in my dept today so I spoke to him and he had no idea what she had done and definitely didn't want to not be on the grant. He also admitted having marital problems which his crush on the other woman was exacerbating and that if she would give him a chance he would have a physical affair.

As he is a leading expert in his field there is no way I want to remove him. But don't want to be responsible for causing problems in his marriage and certainly don't want his wife calling and blaming me anyway!

AIBU to think that as adults they should sort it out themselves and not fuck up my very important piece of work!!!!

grumpy, I'm an academic myself, albeit one who previously worked in the private sector. I'm aware of the grant writing process.

because they are formed voluntarily, HR doesn't really have much to do with it

But that doesn't mean that the employees have any fewer rights. This is the problem with the universities as employment law Wild West: there's a claim of exceptionalism around every corner. HR may not have much to do with it, but everyone involved is a full-time employee of a perfectly straightforward employer and the employees have perfectly straightforward employment law rights. If they are working on their institution's behalf, then the institution has an obligation to ensure their employment is correctly managed.

There is no imaginable world in which dismissing someone from a role in order to replace them with the manager's husband is not problematic, particularly when it's done with absolutely no process. The things you have said make the ensuing ET more complicated, they do not make the situation acceptable.

And in any event, grumpy, my understanding of the OP's situation is that she and the man she wishes to replace with her husband and her husband all work for the same institution. That other people in the story don't would be a complicating factor if it were a person from another institution who was the complainant: the OP's proposed course of action rather renders that moot.

Metacentric,
Oh sorry, I thought you might not know the process.
I completely agree with you, although my experience in practice is that HR are just not that interested unless pieces of work are under a formal contract.
I do think that the replacement being the husband is an issue, although if in a Uni setting I think the OP would be able to argue strongly on grounds of 'best for the collaboation' after 'initial scientist was unsuitable'. Anyway, not really arguing the right and wrongs......but in my many years of uni employment, HR didn't feature very much.
[extreme opposite situation at AstraZeneca though!]

And also, can you imagine how this might look on an HR file. (Imagine: "she dropped me and got her husband onto the project because I fancied a lesbian from another institution and my wife was making a massive fuss")

Anyway, massively getting away from the point here and not meaning to be inflammatory, especially to you, Metacentric, as I do agree. Are you in genetics (guessing from your name)?

Good luck OP, I would be very interested to hear how it all turns out. And hope you get the grant, whoever is on it in the end!

'Fraid not. I was reading about ship roll centres and thought it was a nice word.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metacentric_height

Well that's a turn around OP.

Within the space of a few posts on a parenting forum you've changed from brilliant man, friend of 3 decades, indispensable with a crazy stupid wife to lovely woman and man must be replaced by your husband

Seriously, get some proper HR advice.

OP, pay close attention to Metacentric's advice and make sure you get advice from HR to cover your own arse, in case the woman being harrassed changes her mind about how she feels about the situation in future.

Christ on a bike. Is this thread still here? It's going to come back to haunt you OP. I would bet a lot of money on it!

The more DH and I talk, the more logical it seems for him to take this man's place. Easier for everyone, including me, to be honest.

Seriously? You get over-involved in a colleague's marriage then ditch him and replace him with your husband? That's professional.

Haven't read full thread yet but
I wasn't a SAHM and I had both a degree and a job when I first met DH .But the environment/culture he worked in was very different -glamourous,creative,joky,lots of casual swearing I found it very difficult to 'mix' with his work colleagues ,although in time I found a handful I clicked with .So I can appreciate OP saying the wife in question may not appreciate the dynamics of their work group .No excuse for her husbands behaviour and yes it needs nipping ...

Sometimes on MN I feel I can't win! I'm using this site as a place to rant so I don't do it at work!! No-one in the group/wider group uses MN and I have changed a couple of details, so not worried about outing.

For the poster who asked: I'm late 40's, the man in question is early 50's, his wife is about my age, my husband early 70's and the other woman late 30's.

It is a loosely joined group and I've been involved in these things before and the composition of the group can change in these early stages - especially if you find that the focus of the research is changing a bit and you don't need some expertise but might need something else instead.

He came over this morning to drop the children off and he and DH had a chat about the situation (I was out). DH says that he's mortified that a personal issue has had such an impact and was considering stepping down anyway - he's also been offered a chance to do a sabbatical abroad which he is seriously considering. He's going to think about it all over the weekend. As my DH is semi-retired he doesn't particularly want to commit himself to taking on work like this, especially as he is the primary carer for our DDs and his DGS. Could keep that role as an advisory one only and do more of that side of things myself - DH was the PhD supervisor for both of us and our experience is similar.

Don't take any more calls from the wife. Tell the daft lovesick bloke to keep his private life, private.

I wonder who blabbed to the wife. Someone on the project with a little grudge? Watch out for further stirring, although hopefully it was just a one-off indiscretion on someone's part.

Op, defintley get some HR advice. Even if it's just to cover you. These things have a habit of coming back to bite you on the arse.

You need to step back from this couple. I would also advise that you find out who to the wife. Not to give them a bollocking but because they obviously can not keep their mouth shut and the displayed very poor judgment. Not someone I would have on a team without raising this with them.

I will speak to HR, just to make sure I'm covered. I do know who it was who told his wife and we had a chat about discretion yesterday. He's young and doesn't really understand the consequences of what he did - but as he is one of only 2 of the team that I directly manage, then I can control him.

Out of interest, does he understand the consequences now? He should be absolutely mortified - obviously this whole situation is the fault of the married man, old enough to know better than to be publicly mooning after an unavailable woman.

But this other person's indiscretion has set off a chain of events that could potentially end a marriage and put a temporary handbrake on a career. He really needs to understand the impact of what he's done.

But this other person's indiscretion has set off a chain of events

Do you owe your colleagues a duty of confidentiality when they tell you about their affairs? No, I didn't think so either. Don't want your colleagues gossiping about your affairs? Don't tell your colleagues about your affairs.

Well, don't have an affair in the first place, and then you really eliminate the risk...

But what sort of eejit actually tells a colleague's would-be cuckolded spouse, whom they've literally just met, that their husband has the complete hots for someone else, and everyone knows about it.

Surely sexual harassment man set off the chain of events......

The person who told the wife sounds off their rocker and/or thoroughly unpleasant though. Anyone else surprised it was a man? Not because men can't be unpleasant but because they're usually just not very interested in this kind of thing.

The fact that the married man started this, does not absolve the idiot who told the wife. He shouldn't have to lie, but going out of your way to tell someone's wife has consequences. It sounds like a life lesson he needs to learn.

Hopefully he learns this along with what sort of behaviour isn't acceptable in the work place.

No, I would assume it was a man who told, especially a young man.

They're often either clueless as to acceptable social small talk, too immature to realise what's appropriate, and/or love 'banter', taking the piss, revving each other up, etc.

I don't think he did it to be malicious in the slightest, I think he just totally took a joke too far, without the teensiest forethought as to the consequences.

I can't guess at his motives.

I know men who have genuinely thought the wife would find it hilarious.

I know some who would hate the way this situation is going and told the wife as they felt she was being disrespected. But failed to think of the way the wife would feel being told in that situation.

I know some who would do it purely to drop the married man in it. Either as 'banter' or because they dislike him.

Could be loads of reasons. I would be concerned about this behaviour.

Is there really "another woman" ? Or are you testing the ground for opinion about a situation you are involved in?

All these cosy chats with his wife seem very off kilter to me. Either you are her friend, or you are not.

There is no affair - it was just a crush that a middle aged man had/has on a younger woman who would never be interested in him in a million years.

The idiot who told his wife is very young, never been in a serious relationship and shows a startling lack of insight about women. However, he's bloody good at his job and that is why I employ him and not many 24 year old over-achiever men have an awful lot of maturity IME.

I am certainly not testing the ground for opinions because I'm the one with the crush/who someone has a crush on and I have had one chat with the wife - the day after she called me in order to apologise etc. We looked after their children yesterday so they could sort things out, but that was hardly a rare occasion as our children do sometimes play together.

As I posted previously, there is a LOT of identifying / personal info on this thread ...... if I were OP, I'd be asking for it to be deleted