To think Lad Mags aren't the real problem

[Mengog]

Over the last couple of years feminist groups and others have really doubled down on the campaigns against Lads Mags and Page 3.

Yet time and again I'm more shocked at the gossip Mags. This was sparked off by a headline about Cheryl Cole, calling her "a bag of bones" on Heat or something similar.

Not too long ago the front of FHM featured Kelly Brook on the cover with the headline 'Beautiful'. This was next to a gossip mag calling her "Fat".

AIBU to think the wrong magazines have been targeted?

You read my mind, mengog.

It is often hard to know what goes through people's minds when they seem to be hitting out. But I think you have to remember, those people probably feel they are utterly righteous, and would interpret criticism as meanness.

It's better, I think, to keep to the analysis rather than picking out individuals and shaming them.

Yes, we can definitely shame the Daily Mail!

But it is really unsurprising women would be doing most of this. It's been like that through history - you get women to police other women. And men get to stand aloof and say 'oh, goodness, look how the women are! Shocking!'

Cross post.

ego, it's what I'm saying upthread: it is highly efficient to get any oppressed class to police itself.

If you're raised female, you have these messages constantly: 'women are nastier to each other' or 'girls are more bitchy than boys' or 'women are our own worst enemy'. You also have the message that women, and girls, ought to feel ashamed if they don't perform femininity correctly.

Put those two things together, and this is what you get. Women are socialised to judge other women, to feel they're competing with other women.

This is why I think one of the best things feminists can do, is like and support other women.

But do that, and you will rapidly be called a man-hating lesbian.

Oh, I hope it'll stop, give us time.

Yes its divide and conquer isn't it? Get woman to turn on woman and the men can shrug their shoulders and walk away. Job done for them.

buffy, I think part of it is female bonding gone badly askew. Which may sound bizarre, but hear me out. I remember feeling as if women's magazines were 'relaxing' and fun - they were a version of a woman-only space, and something that was talking to me, and not male-as-default.

So, all the '10 things for a beach body' come across as woman-to-woman chat. You're so pleased to be in that wider female conversation, you don't realise the subject matter is shite.

YY, divide and conquer.

Also I don't think men are the best people to start campaigns about magazines read predominantly by woman.

Sorry, you lost me there...

It's alright for women to start a campaign about magazines read predominantly by men, but it isn't okay for men to start campaigns about magazines read predominantly by women?

Hypocritical much?

Yes, I've noticed it too, ego.

ellie - dunno, I thought that was a fair point? I think the OP is a man (sorry if I am wrong), so fair enough to say?

I do also think there's a power imbalance to take into account, too.

Magazines like FHM, Zoo or Nuts arent innocent. - just their Editors.

Oh wait!!! all bar one if Editors of Heat are/were men.

There was a programme a while back with Kirsty Wark interviewing Martin Daubney who edited (edits?) Loaded.

She was rather good and he, predictably, was a giant pillock.

I think celeb magazines and men's magazines are both flip sides of same coin. One objectifies women in a 'cor look at the tits on that' way, whilst the other demoralizes probably the same woman in a 'oh my god look how fat she's got' way.

Society has taught men to appraise women in that way and judge them for their looks and sexual attractiveness. Society has also pitted women against each other and attempts to teach to them hate and despise other women for their looks and sexual attractiveness. Because it's a competition innit? Both parts of the same problem in my opinion. We need to stop objectifying women and basing their worth on their attractiveness or lack thereof. That is root of this problem - objectification.