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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Aibu to advice my friend not to have a third child because she does not have a career?

129 replies

Rebecca2014 · 12/07/2015 13:15

My friend leads a nice lifestyle with her husband and two children, they have been discussing having a third child. With the thought of the 2015 budget in my head, I told her I would not personally have a third child because you never know what could happen in the future (separation etc)

Her husband is the high earner in the family. If they split, most likely she will end up on welfare. Even if she gets a job, she will need tax credits and obviously we all know they are going be cut and limited to two children. Is it wrong of me to think women who do not have careers should not have three children? due to the risk of being in poverty if the relationship fails or something happens to the husband career.

I know you cannot go through life thinking what if...however I feel women who rely on their partners income are at risk. Am I overthinking this?

OP posts:
MrsKoala · 12/07/2015 19:54

i agree with you OP but then I'm of the the belief that women are daft not to maintain their own independence financially and have their own pension

What happens if you actually cost the family money to maintain your independence? What if you cannot actually afford to go back to work even after 1 child, should you just not have children? Even if your partner earns enough for you to be a sahm?

I also think it's bad a high earning nrp pay a small amount of their income and not contribute to childcare while the Rp can be on nmw, get child benefit and tax credits and subsidised pre-school places etc, When if the couple stayed together the calculations would be based on both incomes.

MuffMuffTweetAndDave · 12/07/2015 19:59

You seem to be taking a pelting because of your ability to recognise what the recent Budget spelled out OP. Which is unfortunate. More than two children is now a decision every couple need to take more carefully than before. Of course that's particularly important for someone whose chances of supporting 3 children at immediate notice are very low.

That said, although you've probably appraised your friend's circumstances correctly and are NBU on that score, you were BU to generalise. Some women with careers would potentially be more screwed than some women without them in the event of shit hitting fan. I don't think even those of us with careers, and who are/are capable of being breadwinners are immune.

thehumanjam · 12/07/2015 20:01

Your friend must think you are deranged for having an opinion on something that is absolutely nothing to do with you. If she did have a career you could argue that it would be unwise to have a third child because it will affect her career prospects. Stop interfering, if I was your friend I would find your tone incredibly patronising.

TheNewStatesman · 12/07/2015 20:07

Some of the responses on this thread are just odd, sorry.

The OP's friend ASKED the OP for her opinion--the OP was not just randomly interjecting her views on her.

Three kids are awfully expensive. Providing the OP was tactful in the way she phrased her reply, I don't understand why it's so wicked for her to point out some of the risks of having a third child.

MrsKoala · 12/07/2015 20:09

What do you get for a third child currently?

BathtimeFunkster · 12/07/2015 20:12

You seem to be taking a pelting because of your ability to recognise what the recent Budget spelled out OP.

Yup.

Mumoftwoyoungkids · 12/07/2015 20:14

Most of my local friends have two kids with the second being in the 6 months to 2.5 range. The "pros and cons of having a third" is a very hot topic in our world.

The latest budget is obviously very relevant to this debate so you would be very welcome in our world Op!

Mrsfrumble · 12/07/2015 20:14

Oh please, spare me the faux "concern" for the financial security of SAHMs that is continually trotted out on here! We're not all complete fucking idiots with our heads in the clouds who haven't considered the implications and don't have a contingency plan. I'd rather posters just came out with the usual stuff about SAHMs being lazy, leeches, wasting our education, a disgrace to feminism, no different to prostitutes etc. rather than the patronizing head-tilts.

thehumanjam · 12/07/2015 20:15

I think you are taking a pelting because you started an AIBU. If your friend asked for your advice you are welcome to give your opinion. But if that's the case why start this thread? Am I being unreasonable to advise my friend when she asked for my advice? That's not what the OP said.

Mumoftwoyoungkids · 12/07/2015 20:20

The thing is that until Wednesday we all lived in a country where - in theory if not in practice - there was a safety net that meant British children will never go hungry. That is no longer true. This is a huge thing and we all do need to get our heads round it.

Mrsfrumble · 12/07/2015 20:32

True, Mumoftwo, but that includes everyone, not just SAHPs. Because shit can happen to anyone and completely change their circumstances.

I actually know a woman who had quite a high flying career and 2 children. She and her husband decided to have a third, who was sadly born with disabilities which meant that the usual childcare options were not suitable, and the woman ended up leaving her job to care for child.

No one is immune to illness, injury, death or bad luck. So having a third child can anyone in a precarious position now.

capulette · 12/07/2015 20:34

Child benefit
Free school meals
Breakfast club
CTC for first two children
Food banks

British children won't go hungry.

BathtimeFunkster · 12/07/2015 20:38

British children are already going hungry.

But happily now even more of them will, especially if they are one of 3 or more siblings!

ElizabethG81 · 12/07/2015 20:39

YANBU OP, and I think you've just had a hard time with the responses here because most people don't understand the implications of Wednesday's budget yet. Also, the risk of having a third child applies to everyone - SAHPs and WOHPs. SAHPs could split up with their partner and find that they can only claim benefits for two children, just as WOHPs could lose their jobs and/or split up with partners and find themselves in the same position. It's something that everyone needs to consider now.

Also, if I was someone with a family of 3+ children who currently isn't claiming tax credits, I would start seriously looking at what arrangements I had in place in terms of income protection insurance/life insurance.

MuffMuffTweetAndDave · 12/07/2015 20:44

Hmmm perhaps we should be worried re women with careers having more than 2 children.Can we comment and judge?After all it is well known that time is what children crave above all else.Surely trying to juggle a career with several children is selfish.Who knows what is round the corner,mental health issues,resentment?hmm

An idiotic comparison. The 2 child stuff is a fact. The safety net is now not there for more than two children, at least from 2017 to 2020. The things you mention, however, are not indisputable facts that are going to happen. Indeed, there is no evidence at all that mothers with careers have children who are more resentful and prone to MH issues in the future however much you might want that to be the case. Whereas there is quite a lot of evidence about the upcoming 2 child tax credit limits, in the form of our beloved Chancellor gleefully regaling us all with it the other day. You also seem to have forgotten that SAHDs and lesbian couples with one career woman and one SAHM are a thing. Tut tut.

As for the childcare point, yes anything can be withdrawn, but the fact is that the current administration clearly want to prioritise childcare support in order to force enable parents to work more. They've made this very, very clear. It could well change after 2020, but for the next five years this is what is going to happen.

And thehumanjam, if OPs friend thinks she's deranged for offering an opinion when asked for one, she's got bigger problems than tax credit reform.

howabout · 12/07/2015 20:45

Under Universal Credit, being rolled out to replace tax credits, anyone with £16k in savings gets no help at all anyway so probably best to tell your friend not to bother with independent saving or insurance cover as well.
This was in place way before Wednesday!

MuffMuffTweetAndDave · 12/07/2015 20:47

MrsKoala, depends on your income. Currently I think the threshold for 3 kids is about 37k, ie if your household income is that figure or less, you'll get some CTC if you have 3 DC. The less you earn, the greater the top up of course.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/tax-credits-entitlement-table-working-at-least-16-hours-and-no-childcare/tax-credits-entitlement-table-working-at-least-16-hours-and-no-childcare

Maximum is just shy of 12k per annum.

PeterGriffinsPenisBeaker · 12/07/2015 20:52

Glad you're not my friend, I'd hate for you to judge me for my three children and my comfortable lifestyle and lack of career. Is she having marriage difficulties or are you just peeing on her parade? Sheesh.

ElizabethG81 · 12/07/2015 20:58

Another one who's completely missed the OP's point...

Viviennemary · 12/07/2015 21:00

So how do SAHM's manage financially when they've been out of the workplace a long time and their marriage or partnership breaks up. It's not a comfortable thought of course but one that should be faced. I wonder if you can insure against this.

FirstWeTakeManhattan · 12/07/2015 21:01

I don't think the OP's getting a hard time because she's just cleverer than anyone else Hmm and 'gets it' whilst her critics don't. I think the OP is BU for this kind of thing Is it wrong of me to think women who do not have careers should not have three children

Plus I find this - I posted because generally though I am concerned for the future of women who do end up in that situation somewhat insincere and as I said upthread, there is a thinly-veiled needling at SAHPs.

Finally, coming back to Is it wrong of me to think women who do not have careers should not have three children There's so much about this statement (not least the failure to take into account where men fit into this) that winds me up.

Mrsfrumble · 12/07/2015 21:06

I think the OP is getting a mixed response because, although she was not unreasonable to advise her friend when asked for her opinion, then starting a thread about it in a notoriously bun-fighty topic - without acknowledging that having a third child is now potentially risky for anyone - makes it look like she has something of an agenda.

Mrsfrumble · 12/07/2015 21:07

X-posted with Manhattan.

LilyTucker · 12/07/2015 21:12

Um they get a job just the same as I did after 7 years.

Same old posters "worrying" about those poor little SAHMs. Strange you'd think they'd be concentrating about their own kids instead of continuously fretting over those from another section of society.

It's interesting.A cynic might think they seek justification for their own life choices.

howabout · 12/07/2015 21:17

Given the childcare vouchers replacement scheme is per child and has already been delayed I am already assuming it will now be limited to 2 DC.