To think we're really terrible at recognising that our parents are also the product of their own difficult childhoods?

[FineDamBeaver]

I think we (culturally, and on MN) tend to be very good at blaming our parents. Saying, for example, "I'm an anxious parent because my mum was always worrying"; "I get depressed because my mum was so critical".
Much less good at realising that (in many cases) parents were then in exactly the same position as we are now, equally products of their own families and pasts, trying (and to some extent failing) to do their best in the context of their own flawed characters and mental health problems.

AIBU to think we should all read that Philip Larkin poem (This Be The Verse) daily to remind us not to be twats about our mums and dads?

[AskBasil]

" taking your anger at your childhood out at op won't do anything to help you."

I know you may not have meant it that way, but that comes across as incredibly dismissive and undermining, Lurkedforever1, as it implies that Jeanne's perfectly valid critique of the OP's dodgy first post, is simply a symptom of her childhood "ishoos". It also sounds a bit like projection on your part, just because you may have responded in the way you're taking for granted that Jeanne is doing, it ain't necessarily so and it's pretty disrespectful, not to say offensive, to make that assumption and then post as if that assumption is correct.

I tend to agree that the OP's first post is wrong. Yes, of course our parents are also products of their upbringing and culture and own demons, but her OP isn't saying this, it's saying that we're all terrible at recognising this.

Much of what I've read on MN directly contradicts this. I've read many posts acknowledging that a parent may have been incapable of parenting precisely because of their childhood, but that that doesn't alter the impact on the poster. I don't know if I've been reading different threads to the OP, but over and over again I see women acknowledging their parent's pain and expressing compassion for it, while not letting them off the hook for their own bad parenting because of it. So I think she is BU to declare that we're "terrible at at recognising that our parents are also the product of their own difficult childhoods", because it's my impression that we're actually very good at it.

[AskBasil]

Oops sorry it took me so long to write that that I've cross-posted

[pinkstrawberries]

I believe many people forgive their parents for too much, just like forgiving abusive men. Women forgive abusive men as they had bad childhood experiences. That is how abusive people have a hold over you, and they know that yiy will forgive no matter what they do to you. I have no idea how to break that cycle.

[JeanneDeMontbaston]

Thanks basil. I agree with you. And with pink.

[SirChenjin]

Oh I recognise that my Dad had a very difficult childhood. What I don't understand (or accept) is that he didn't decide that actually, he wouldn't repeat history or get help for his resulting mental ill health. As it is, we had a shitty time with him and continue to do so.

[Lurkedforever1]

jeanne and basil I possibly did phrase that badly, and I probably did project. Because it sounded like something I would have said. I wasn't intending it to come across in a patronising play nice way, anything but! More to say that getting angry with people who may or may not have a clue doesn't help you to deal with it. Or at least for me I preferred getting angry over the more bleak idea that it was just shit, but anger didn't help me. I've been on the receiving end of some really wanky comments in real life, such as emotional abuse not being real abuse. Or eg without going into anything too deep or the more harrowing aspects of my childhood, I've had people spout bollocks like being told your parent can't afford a new dress is far more of an upsetting childhood than something like being told you can't have a dress because you're fat and ugly and will look stupid and shouldn't draw attention to yourself. But i've found it's better for me to respond to anyone I think is either naïve, sheltered, patronising etc by quietly thinking 'wanker' and consoling myself that if the shit ever hits the fan in their life, they won't have the strength of mind to deal with it like I have.
But again apologies if I came over as either dismissive or patronising, that wasn't my intention at all.

[JeanneDeMontbaston]

Don't worry about it - it's not a big deal, but I did want to explain.

I'm sorry you had such a rotten time.

[Lurkedforever1]

No worries and same to you

[SerenYWythnos]

My DM had a difficult relationship with her own mother. From my own memories of her she was cold, not maternal, emotionally abusive and I suspect a narcissist. My DM was the scapegoat and bore the brunt of it, but you know it's not my problem at the end of the day. DM is nowhere near as bad, but she is moody, passive aggressive and unpredictable. She also has controlling tendencies and has real problems with me standing up to her, presumably because she spent her entire life running around after her mother desperately trying to win her approval. Which by the way she never got. I don't need my DM's approval for anything.

[lionheart]

ADB

[Sleepsoftly]

Listen. Don't watch.

[EeekEeekEeekEeek]

Late back to the thread, but some excellent posts from innocent and Jeanne. seriously makes the very good point that there is a wide range of 'good enough', i.e. not dysfunctional, parenting. And yes, in those cases there will be niggles and mistakes, and it's important to remember that those parents were only human and not dwell on the fact they weren't perfect.

Abusive and dysfunctional parenting is a completely different matter, and needs to be recognised and thought through in order that it doesn't repeat itself in the next generations.

The OP has pressed a few buttons because the Larkin poem says something that many abusive parents tell their own children, should they dare to rebel: that they'll be just as bad. My own mother told me that whatever she did to me, I'd do to my own children; also that I'd pass on a 'generation of hate'. It was a weapon to hit out at me because I was standing up to her. It's so awful for her to look honestly at what she did that she has to believe Larkin's sentiment is true.

Incidentally, there was a poem written in response to Larkin by Adrian Mitchell, called 'This be the Worst':

They tuck you up, your mum and Dad
They read you Peter Rabbit, too
They give you all the treats you had
And add some extra, just for you

They were tucked up when they were small
(Pink perfume, blue tobacco-smoke)
By those whose kiss healed any fall
Whose laughter doubled any joke

Man hands on happiness to man
It deepens like a coastal shelf
So love your parents all you can
And have some cheerful kids yourself.

[BrendaBlackhead]

Very interesting OP.

I always get annoyed by people who judge people's actions in the past through contemporary behaviour spectacles. I see it over and over again, not just on here, but in books, too.

Eg, my father never hugged me or said he loved me - well, nobody's father did a few decades ago! Very few mothers did either. It didn't mean they didn't love you, but people were more reserved. I've even seen people complain about their mother's cooking. Yes, some women were crap cooks but there wasn't a vast choice of food pre-1980s. It all had to be made from first principles and most people had the same menu week in week out.

I'm obviously not including genuinely abusive parents, but I often raise an eyebrow when I see people quick to criticise their parents' behaviour and not stopping to think before long their own dcs will be moaning about interminable Centerparks holidays as a child and why didn't they never go to the Moon? (Silly example, perhaps, but not too far off the mark.)