To think we're really terrible at recognising that our parents are also the product of their own difficult childhoods?

[FineDamBeaver]

I think we (culturally, and on MN) tend to be very good at blaming our parents. Saying, for example, "I'm an anxious parent because my mum was always worrying"; "I get depressed because my mum was so critical".
Much less good at realising that (in many cases) parents were then in exactly the same position as we are now, equally products of their own families and pasts, trying (and to some extent failing) to do their best in the context of their own flawed characters and mental health problems.

AIBU to think we should all read that Philip Larkin poem (This Be The Verse) daily to remind us not to be twats about our mums and dads?

I think it's not limited to parents. One of the wisest posts I ever read on here was that we tend to blame our own mistakes and bad behavior on our circumstances and external influences, while regarding the mistakes and bad behaviour of others as innate character flaws.

Sadly I can't credit the poster as I can't remember who it was.

Some people are just arses though; regardless of whether they are a parent or not. Maybe they are arses because they never learned properly how to be considerate, kind, polite and open minded by those who raised them but that doesn't give them the right to impose their arseyness on others.

It is when they do so that they find themselves distanced from people in favour of more pleasant company and family is really no different iykwim.

There is an unfortunate habit, that comes with the territory, of abusing a sense of obligation until drastic measures have to be taken. Subtlety and understanding don't work.

It's a good post OP, made me think!

Worth considering that we are not many generations removed from wartime, men destroyed mentally as well as physically. I wonder whether a generation indoctrinated with 'stiff upper lip' who experienced something so bad it was better not to care at all ever could ever be compared to the parenting models we accept as normal today.

And the impact of losses of male family members on women, as well as the worry and stress of day to day living essentially as single parents with little support...

And no counselling, people just got on with it.

I often read people on here thinking that they are doing so much better than their own mothers did without having any understanding of:

• the times they were living in
• their mother's own childhood
• the way they themselves will be judged by their own DC in a more perfect future.

It is interesting.

My parents made some pretty dreadful mistakes and I vowed I would not make those same mistakes with my own kids.

And I didn't....I made a whole load of completely different mistakes!

I understand how my mum's awful childhood messed her up. I've talked to her a lot about it. I can see how it led to her parenting me the way she did, and I know she did the best she did.

That doesn't mean I have to forget the emotional abuse. We need to recognise these things so we don't pass them on. I'm not interested in blame, but in finding out how my childhood messed me up and how I can heal myself enough to do better with my own kids.It's not about blaming my parents and imagining I'm perfect, but looking honestly at the damage done and repairing it.

The Larkin poem says that it's inevitable we'll inflict the same miseries on our kids, which is not true. It's possible to break the cycle.

Larkin might not literally be right that you get all the same faults as your parents. But the bit about "some extra just for you" is spot on.

And I didn't....I made a whole load of completely different mistakes!

Yes, ^ this, TTWK. Me too.

Agree OrangeVase. I'm reminded of the "What was your 70s / 80s childhood like" thread on here a few months ago. The general consensus was that parents of the time were pretty slack and neglectful, and that the more concerned, involved style of parenting that's more common these days was better. I think only time will tell; maybe our children will grow up to resent being cosseted and hovered-over.

It's an interesting point. My parents and grandparents are university educated, well travelled and sophisticated, yet all are/were emotionally illiterate, functioning alcoholics bordering on abusive.

Even when my DB and I, after extensive counselling, tried to speak to our parents, they stonewalled, denied and minimised.

There is no excuse, given the access we all have to literature and information, not to become more informed about the ways in which dysfunctional families operate, begin to recognise the patterns and start to break them.

I no longer care what they think, and concentrate on ensuring my children will never feel how we did.

If people really want to understand, they will.

I have noticed on here that if other people are arses their mental health is discussed, any conditions they may have are taken into account, yet if it is your parents they are simpley toxic and must be dropped

I've forgiven my Father, he was abusive in every way, his upbringing contributed to his MH and his behaviour. He died in 1985.

I think my Mum has a PD, but given that she treated my elder Sister differently (and other people well) she coluded and added to the abuse and severely neglected me. I won't forgive her, al though I am her carer and she will pass away within months.

I've had it out with her and she has apologised, but she took the life of me that I could of had.

She is one of four, my DA and DU, are lovely people, as was my GM.

My Father had a good excuse, my Mother didn't. I'd of happily gone into a Children's Hone, she kept me in the situation.

You know your own circumstances, best.

I completely agree OP. I think there are exceptions obviously but yes, in most cases parents do the best they can within their own limitations. I'm sure my DS will have lots of things that he will be determined to do differently with his own children in the future.

I know in particular, my Dad had a very difficult childhood where he was an only child, on a isolated farmstead, and basically left on his own for long periods of time. His parents were very unhappy together and he never managed to rebuild his relationship with his mum (my GM) before she died. He tries now to show more that he cares for me and my brothers but it doesn't come naturally to him at all.

This is a thought provoking thread, and some of these posts are heartbreaking. My mum has dementia now - in the last stages - it's so sad to see. She never mentions my dad - who killed himself - but she ruminates endlessly about her abusive dad, who died 55+ years ago.

In my generalised memory she was always angry and disappointed, unpredictable and puritanical. The way to survive was to be perfect. You would think that she would have produced children able to look after themselves, but I'm sure I have arrested development! Still need those top marks, tortured by negative voices, totally uncommercial, like a permanent angsty 6th former. Saved by my lovely husband. I have very bright DCs. But I really worry that I've passed them some of my worst flaws.

One strange thing - I remember next to nothing about my childhood. I could count my genuine memories on a few fingers. I marvel at people being able to write misery memoirs etc. Maybe they just kept very good diaries! I wonder if trauma (like parent loss through violent suicide) expunges your childhood memories on some level.

There are some really good memories though. Like the rustle of Christmas wrapping in her bedroom on Christmas Eve, wrapping up our presents. She loathed Christmas - and speaking for myself, as a parent of young children in Christmas shops, that's when I've come closest to understanding how shit her life must have been, but she always kept it together - so we all had to as well.

Okay, I'm going to be really polite about this: my mother is a narcissitic bitch whore cunt from hell. What's really interesting is the way she makes things up about what a bad childhood she had, how my grandmother gave away her dog, that would be the dog they never had etc. Both her siblings claim that their childhood was idyllic. No idea what her excuse is, and no interest either. I'm just happy that my grandmother did her best to rescue me as often as she could.

What Eeek said.

I've known for years about my mum's messed up childhood. The difference is that when I have kids, I'm going to work bloody hard at breaking the pattern, and she absolutely did not - and is still the most difficult person I've ever known.

You can be deeply sorry for someone and the factors that shaped them, while still despising the impact they had on you.

I think it depends.

My mum has two half sisters, 9 and 10 years younger than she is. My mum's stepdad was a very unpleasant individual, my gran enabled everything he did to emotionally abuse and neglect my mum.

My mum took a conscious decision not to make the same mistakes they did and succeeded in that - my Dsis and I had great childhoods and my mum succeeded in breaking the cycle.

My mum's half sisters turned out very differently - one, the golden child, has turned out to be an emotionally abusive selfish narcissist who has made her daughter's (my cousin) life hell. My cousin is working very hard towards not making the same mistakes once she starts a family. The other one, the scapegoat once my mum left home, is a warm, wonderful person, a great mum to her now grown up sons, a fabulous woman who I am proud to call family - again, because she recognised how dysfunctional her own parenting was.

So I think that insight is the key - if you don't have it, or develop it, you don't have much of a chance to turn things around. Your parents do fuck you up - but as an adult you have a duty to mend yourself if you have the ability to recognise what they did wrong.

I had a loving decent mother, so I cannot talk from personal experience, but I know more than one person who have had appalling childhoods who have really made the effort not to repeat the cycle. I think as adults, we have to act as adults and do our best not to pass our problems on to our children.

But I love this: we tend to blame our own mistakes and bad behavior on our circumstances and external influences, while regarding the mistakes and bad behaviour of others as innate character flaws

This is such a human failing.

my mother is a narcissitic bitch whore cunt from hell.

Do I take it you don't always see eye to eye?

My parents didn't have the greatest upbringings but from age 20+ have it much easier than our generation. I don't know why they can't be more loving and caring and less lazy, especially my Mother.

Both my parents had difficult childhoods and so did I.
My brother doesn't acknowledge this and is making the same mistakes whereas I know that there was a lot wrong with the way I was brought up and I'm avoiding those mistakes ( probably making different ones though)
I fully understand why my parents were the way they were but I think you can get to a point where you know your behaviour isn't right and you have a choice to carry on or change.

I'm perfectly well aware of my parent's childhoods.

I am also aware my grandfather was the only man in my life to treat me well.

If you think you haven't acknowledged your parents' experience, then by all means, beat yourself up about it. But leave the rest of us out of it, yes? It ha nothing to do with how 'good' we are. It has to do with the fact that, for some of this, this isn't a childish question of playing nice.

Do you think they do it as someone really hurt them growing up so they want to try and break you? That is my theory with my parents especially my Mother.