To think we're really terrible at recognising that our parents are also the product of their own difficult childhoods?

[FineDamBeaver]

I think we (culturally, and on MN) tend to be very good at blaming our parents. Saying, for example, "I'm an anxious parent because my mum was always worrying"; "I get depressed because my mum was so critical".
Much less good at realising that (in many cases) parents were then in exactly the same position as we are now, equally products of their own families and pasts, trying (and to some extent failing) to do their best in the context of their own flawed characters and mental health problems.

AIBU to think we should all read that Philip Larkin poem (This Be The Verse) daily to remind us not to be twats about our mums and dads?

My mother & father come from very large families with dirt poor backgrounds, no education but good work ethic. Other than that I've no idea what my Dads childhood was really like as he rarely talks about it.

My mothers childhood was fantastic apparently. She however is an awful mother, she genuinely has no idea how to be a parent or a wife for that matter. Her whole world revolves around her sisters who she spends all her time with.

I could never figure it out, why have children if you can't parent?

I however have broken the cycle (I hope) I do everything for my kids possibly even over compensating for my lack of upbringing.

My Mum had an idyllic childhood and parents who adored her. She also had a happy marriage and a husband who really loved her.

She is still an evil bitch.

My Dad never intervened. But I've since discovered that he was physically abused as a child so I'm not really sure if he knew it was abnormal. But he must have known how frightening it was when he was a child, and if it did affect him badly then why would he let that happen to his own child?

It makes it more understandable, but it doesn't make it justifiable.

Nobody gets given a free pass to be abusive, no matter what their background was.

Absolutely spot on.

Good point innocent. Also easier to cut them slack if they did indeed have difficult childhoods, rather than one average and one having a lovely one.

Nobody gets given a free pass to be abusive, no matter what their background was.

This.

My childhood was shit until I was 7. My parents, predominantly my father, but my mother allowed, colluded and occasionally instigated, were vile. They were violent, neglectful and beyond selfish. Both think they have had the hardest lives known to man, to the point they think they were hard done by when my "evil" grandparents "stole" their children from them...

My grandparents on my father's side took the four of us in. They were good parents to us. My father has 3 siblings and none of them have treated their children anything other than well. My mother's parents were stunned and devastated by their daughter, they weren't great for us as they couldn't keep their mouths shut enough to not get cut out of our lives by the parents. Their other daughter and son have children and again treat them decently.

Even if my parents had a horrific upbringing their actions are no more defenceable than it would be if I took my upbringing out on my kids. Your job as a parent is to put aside your fears, weaknesses and do everything you possibly can to do the best for your child - that never includes being evil to them.

Well said, LaLyra.

The OP sounds extremely naive. And it is offensive - many people have excellent, loving relatives and it is so important to acknowledge that.

This thread reminds me of when a particularly obnoxious friend told me that he found it 'immature' when people didn't appreciate their parents, as he himself loved his parents very much.

I think that if you are fortunate enough to have parents whom you can forgive, you should count yourself lucky, and not lecture others.

"Why have children if you can't parent"
Maybe because you don't know you can't parent until you try

Hmmm, a little perplexed by the vitriol Jeanne (& always think resorting to personal comments is bizarre). Have made it perfectly clear I'm talking about trends not individuals. Please feel free to be one of the well acknowledged exceptions, & please do me the courtesy of acknowledging you know nothing of my background (which happens to contain some quite extreme events, not that that should matter).

I can completely understand you being perplexed. I do see that it is difficult.

But don't you see, it's extremely rude to label people as 'exceptions' and dismiss them, when you've previously addressed everyone?

You started out saying this was a problem with 'us', and especially MN. Obviously, you know abuse is very common, so clearly you were including many women in that category. But then, you seem to have decided you only wanted to talk about the women who haven't experienced this abuse - ie., the lucky ones. Yes, you are the majority. But, even if you imagine that you are talking about a 'trend', you are in fact talking about real people's lives. Because, you see, that is what trends are made up of.

If you are talking about parental abuse, then perhaps you should remember that we have already been told, many times, that we don't count as people.
You should do us the courtesy of acknowledging us. You are able to pretend we're not people while you talk about 'trends'. We are not it that position, and I don't actually believe that our experiences are less valid than your 'trends'.

YY, dawn, it's incredibly rude.

And pretending the OP was some kind of deep, class analysis is only adding insult to injury.

TTWK, no we don't see eye to eye, she was incredibly abusive and at 56 I still have nightmares about her. I have neither seen nor spoken to her for a good number of years, it's fabulous!

I believe that on the whole each generation will do its best to be the best parents they can. Thus will be heavily influenced by their own upbringing. With each generation they will try to 'give their children better than they had'. Depending on the childhood of that parent this will look very different.

I have a rough relationship with my mum and resent a lot of the parenting choices she made but on the other hand I know she was doing her best and my childhood was fantastic compared to hers. Knowing more about her childhood now, I can see a lot if similarities between her and her mum. I'd love a closer relationship with her but she was one of 12 children and was pretty much taken out of school to look after the babies while her mum kept up appearances by being a martyr to the community and helping everyone else.

I am sure she thinks she has done an amazing job and that she has provided much more for me than was ever available for her (which is true) but this doesn't stop me hoping for more for my kids. I will learn from her mistakes and do 'my best' which I am sure in 30 years time will be different to my children's best.

Well, I apologise for flippant use of the word "all" in the final paragraph of the OP, and am sorry for causing evident distress to some. Not my intention. I don't agree that commenting on a pervasive (and it is) societal bias is unacceptable, but I could have been more sensitive in the phrasing. Sorry to hear of your terrible experiences.

TTWK, no we don't see eye to eye, she was incredibly abusive and at 56 I still have nightmares about her. I have neither seen nor spoken to her for a good number of years, it's fabulous!

A shrewd move by the sound of it

My question wasn't serious, (as you probably guessed), more an attempt to inject a modicum of humour. I'm no Sherlock Holmes but from your description of her, I was able to read between the lines and deduce that things weren't exactly a bed of roses! I'm good at that, picking up the subtle vibes.

jeanne I say this in the nicest possible way, op is not your parents so having a go isn't going to actually make you feel any better long term. I get where you're coming from, I really really do, nothing used to wind me up more than people I perceived as glossing over my childhood or making excuses. Or even worse those who I decided rightly or wrongly lived in a bubble and really didn't have a clue about just how shit things could be. God did I hate them and jump on every opportunity to take my considerable anger out on them. But I've come to realise that it didn't help me in anyway whatsoever. Whether op is a do gooder with no idea of the real world ( not saying you are op) or someone who had an even worse upbringing than yours or mine taking your anger at your childhood out at op won't do anything to help you.

So true. My mum trained me to have no needs. I was a people pleaser looking for approval. She was the second youngest of four girls. the eldest was beautiful. Could have been a hollywood starlet. The next was really intelligent, outgoing, could have debated for Europe. Then came my mum who was average. Then the youngest was cute and funny and sweet. My mum got slim pickings of any attention that was going. She was controlling of me when I was growing up, v angry if I challenged anything, also, ''benignly neglectful''. We were sent to bed really early. She never ''chatted'' with us. Never asked us what we thought. or wanted. It was all about us living up to her high bar. but I'm aware that her parents' parenting of her was worse than her parenting of me.

I could have forgiven and moved on and built a relationship with my parents if they had a. acknowledged what they had done and b. apologized. that's all i wanted for years. But the time has passed for that and they have chosen to remain in fantasy worlds of their choosing. That's a choice. My choice is to keep them at very arm's length and have very little to do with them - as being around them triggers panic attacks and the like. I feel not one iota of guilt for this and really couldn't give a shit if other people don't get it. Ironically, my mother cut off her own mother when we were small children, so really, she should count herself lucky that I speak to her at all.

I'm with the others who say an abusive childhood is no excuse.

so yes, Finedambeaver, YABU.

I agree with a lot of the OP. I think that many people are very quick to blame their parents for every negative aspect of their adult lives, without taking responsibility for themselves or, as the OP suggests, without recognising that their parents were just ordinary flawed human beings who inevitably made mistakes. I hasten to add that I am not talking about situations of abuse or neglect but about "good enough" upbringings.

I have always thought that this perspective has its roots in part in the essential power imbalance in the parent/child relationship. Because of this power differential in childhood, as adults some people over-invest their parents with a kind of omnipotence and view them as the source of all that is negative. But the same people are often quick to claim personal credit for anything positive that has happened in their lives.

The sad thing is that many people are blind to their own flaws in raising children. They have switched sides in a way (now on the other side of that power imbalance) but seem incapable of seeing their own status as "good enough" parents. And when their children grow up, they will probably harbour just as many seething resentments and swear they will do everything differently with their own children. BTW, I am by no means exempting myself from this cycle.

Well, that's my take on the subject. Larkin said it better. And in verse.

I couldn't read all the thread but what I observed is at old times people didn't have much idea about depression, anxiety or ads, knowing those could help them more.

"MrsFrumble" I have been thinking about your point about how we tend to attribute our own mistakes to circumstance and others' mistakes to bad character. This rings so true.