i am loathing the gradual creep of the term 'gotten' on here

[FrankietheSquealer]

Please desist

I suppose you could substitute it with, say: it has become...

But, why would you?

Frankie, "modern English" doesn't mean what you think it does.

Thanks for the links Emily.

"I have gotten
You (singular) have gotten
He/she/it has gotten

We have gotten
You (plural) have gotten
They have gotten"

That's just awful. The lack of specification makes it sound like baby talk. Its like Dutch and Afrikaans.

I would tend to question Woodbury's conclusions. Isn't what she is trying to do a big no-no in linguistics? Making assumptions of language rules based on a very few examples? Authors make up all sorts of terms or use obscure words to suit their own purposes but they should not be taken as a definitive guide to historical language use. There are plenty of examples in modern day Harry Potter novels. But you would hope that someone years from now would not use it to justify that we play a game called quidditch!

Well, those aren't the only authors who use "gotten"; I think she's mentioning the most well-known ones because those are the ones most of her readers will recognize. I had a friend who was going over Elizabethan shipping supply lists for her dissertation, and there was a lot of "gotten" in that (and now we all know just how geeky I am because I messaged her just to talk about "gotten").

It seems to me that meaning is lost in many cases if one uses "got" for "gotten" because it requires context or extra words to clearly convey the idea in that case. But maybe that's just because it was how I taught and what I heard everyone around me saying when I was a child. And maybe "gotten" is making a comeback! Language does move in cycles...

Oh, Chandler, I had the most rousing debate the other day with someone Rowling's Latin gibberish attempts! It was so much fun. And I'm not taking the piss.

Of all the terms to be annoyed by, gotten shouldn't be one of them. As others have posted, it is actually an old English term which no doubt was in use when the first emigrants were in the USA and they continued to use it. It is certainly correct grammatically and we still use terms such as "forgotten" and "ill-gotten gains." This rant seems to be more an anti-American usage of English more than anything else.

Having said that, as a longterm resident in the USA it drives me mad that people do not use adverbs here, it doesn't seem to matter how highly educated they might be. "She did that perfect" for example, is not an uncommon type of incorrect adverb I will hear. Drives me up the wall!

Rainbunny, poorly educated people everywhere do that. It is one of my grammar pet peeves as well. But do you what is worse? When someone says "should OF".

Are you living somewhere in the US where people say "y'all" or "youse"?

I say y'all. I am from Georgia (the one in the US).

What about "I was sat on the corner" or "I was stood watching that"
They annoy me, I even hear it on the beeb. Where have the ing words gorn?

Amn't I allowed to stay in the area outwith the city centre?

'Outwith' is very Scottish but I think 'amn't' has largely fallen out of use in Scotland, I never hear people say it. It's still very much used in Ireland however so I'm more inclined to classify 'amn't' as an Irishism.

Youse is a Dublinism and probably entered American English by way of Irish immigrants.

I hate the lack of adverbs too, Rainbunny. 'Doing good' instead of 'doing well' makes my teeth itch, along with your example and many others. Every time a character on Sesame Street said 'doing good' I corrected them and my children are not one bit embarrassed by me

The creep of 'They invited my wife and I..' gets my goat too.

English-speaking countries (other than England) both use the word 'gotten' and post on Mumsnet, so you might just have to put up with it.

What about "I was sat on the corner" or "I was stood watching that"

I agree, those bother me as well. It sounds as though someone picked up up and sat you somewhere, or picked you up and stood you somewhere.

Amn't is alive and well in Scotland.

I've lived in Scotland for ages now and have probably heard 'amn't' used once or twice. Whenever I've used it I've been given baffled looks and a 'what did you just say?' type comment.

Maybe it's used in specific pockets.

"I text my friend last night". No, you didn't...you TEXTED her. Aargh!

I used to say texted but got mocked by multiple people for making up my own past tense form when it should just have been 'text'.

Keep up the fight for texted. You are right.

People who use text for the past tense obviously think the present is 'I tex' and the past is 'I texed' which sounds like text.

There was a thread on this very subject recently.

Emilywrites - I was in LA for a decade and now I'm in Seattle. The epidemic of people not being able to use adverbs seems present in both places!

Maryz - Please dont get me started on the logical/grammatical nightmare that the phrase "I could care less" invokes!

I am also hating the creep of the word gotten.
Stop it stop it stop it.

I am finding that I won't contribute to threads with the word in.

Scottish but not in Scotland. I use amn't, in fact my DS said it the other day and he has never lived in Scotland.

I wrote outwith in a report and it got changed to outside, which is a real shame as the meaning is just not the same.