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i am loathing the gradual creep of the term 'gotten' on here

291 replies

FrankietheSquealer · 09/07/2015 17:07

Please desist

OP posts:
LaVolcan · 11/07/2015 09:47

My Granny recalled how when 'the talkies', as opposed to silent films arrived, how strange the accents were. They talked English, but nothing like us.

pedanticcitnadep · 11/07/2015 12:12

Language changing overall doesn't bother me, but phrases from elsewhere used as a semi-conscious affectation to sound more interesting do. The people who do that are irritating twats regardless of whether their affectation happens to match something used in Shakespeare's time, or is normal idiom in other parts of the UK to their own, or whether it eventually spreads so much that it becomes normal language throughout the UK.

If it does spread like that then it ends up not an affectation any more, just current idiom, and is fine with me however much it may be different from language used earlier in my lifetime. Of course by then the irritating twats have moved on to some other expression.

Howcanitbe · 11/07/2015 15:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GoodbyeToAllOfThat · 11/07/2015 15:57

"Working two jobs" is very American. I suspect "role" rather than "job" is corporate-speak.

mathanxiety · 11/07/2015 20:57

Latin entered English many centuries before the Renaissance via Christianity, surely?

mathanxiety · 11/07/2015 21:08

Business speak is the most irritating intrusion into language ever, imo.

There is a difference between a role and a job. Calling a job a job indicates the person with the job has a life outside of his working hours and there is a distinction between the job and the life. But when you call it a role it means you have in some way that is satisfactory to the managerial class become that job and the job has become part of the fibre of your being. I suspect it also satisfies some megalomaniacal aspect of personalities that see everyone else as part of the drama of their enterprise, like puppets, or children assigned roles when playing house.

The concept draws from elements of American football too, where specific players have very specific roles in the game receivers, linebackers, offensive forwards, punters, kickers and there are even specific teams on the field at any given time -- the punt return team, the kickoff team, the onside kick team.

thegreylady · 11/07/2015 21:15

I am marking GCSE English papers at the moment and 'gotten' is everywhere I hate it.

mathanxiety · 11/07/2015 22:32

Having thought a bit about it, as far as I am able to discern, in American English 'gotten' is a part of the verb used to describe a work in progress moreso than one already accomplished.

'He hasn't gotten any money' isn't the same as 'He hasn't got any money'.
'He has gotten money' isn't the same as 'He has got money'.

'I've got a new phone' indicates the phone has been acquired and that is the end of the story. I now own the new phone. The old one is replaced.
'I've gotten a new phone' indicates there is some part of the process of getting the phone that has yet to be completed.

I am not sure if the subtlety of this has percolated into British English, or if I have illustrated it sufficiently.

RealHuman · 11/07/2015 22:52

math - in my dialect I'd use "got hold of" in all those sentences to communicate a similar meaning to the "gotten", I think.

SenecaFalls · 11/07/2015 23:04

I agree with math. There is definitely a distinction, and if the distinction hasn't traveled back across the pond, then I can see why some people may question the usage.

mathanxiety · 11/07/2015 23:55

I would see 'got hold of' as indicating there had been a search or some piece of luck had been involved in securing an item.

TheChandler · 12/07/2015 01:09

Americans do have some odd, indirect ways of referring to things. With "gotten" for instance, I've no idea how recently they obtained the item in question.

I've just read:

"I'm pumped for this one", nearly as bad as "I'm stoked" particularly when where you come from pumping means farting

"He blows the field in any race situation" - he WHAT?? The whole field??

"Its a doozy". Eh?

"Dem would have got lit up hard in a fight situation" - I give up. No idea.

I find American English increasingly hard to decipher. At times, it just seems like a random conglomeration of vague words, gathered together for effect. Can they not just say what they mean?

SenecaFalls · 12/07/2015 01:41

Chandler Frankly, I just think you have an anti-American bias. People have explained and given examples of how old "gotten" is. And all of the language you cite as hard to understand is just colorful slang and pretty understandable from context or googling.

emilywrites · 12/07/2015 03:35

Yes, Chandler, your examples are slang (possibly veering into dialect). They aren't grammatically correct English, and aren't representative of "standard American English". I put them your examples into the same category as some of the gems I overheard the last time I walked past a group of kilted soccer/football fans: the way they spoke was almost unintelligible to me, but I am able to understand that it isn't standard, grammatically correct British English.

I'm starting to think you do have some sort of anti-American bias.

SenecaFalls · 12/07/2015 03:51

And then there's Cockney rhyming slang. I, as an American, need a glossary for that. Smile

emilywrites · 12/07/2015 06:30

My favorite variations are in Liverpool, though. I don't always understand exactly what is being said the first time around, but the people in that area are so warm and friendly that they are happy to repeat it. The world would be a bleaker place if nobody said 'ta'.

CuttedUpPear · 12/07/2015 07:33

thegreylady can you fail the examinees for using gotten?

I do hope so. This is our chance to stamp it out!

GoodbyeToAllOfThat · 12/07/2015 09:02

Chandler that's all slang, there's even a Friends episode where Rachel despairs at her date using this kind of language. So your critique isn't particularly unique or insightful.

scrulytrumptious · 12/07/2015 11:39

I'm with you chachaboom I can't bear people starting a sentence (and posts on mn) with "so" - 'what do you do for a living?' 'so I'm a used car salesman' 'so, I don't get on well with my MIL' - there is no need for 'so'

Also: Can I get

It was so fun
Excited for
I'm good
I do, when it should be I have
Going football, golf, toilet - it's going to or to the, ffs

     Phew
irretating · 12/07/2015 12:01

There are worse things than 'gotten'. I really hate it when people use jargonese outside of their work setting*. It doesn't make you look intelligent, it makes you look like a knob.

TheChandler · 12/07/2015 13:45

Seneca Frankly, I just think you have an anti-American bias.

Gosh, I wouldn't go to that much effort over the place!

People have explained and given examples of how old "gotten" is. And all of the language you cite as hard to understand is just colorful slang and pretty understandable from context or googling.

Just because people don't agree with the Great You, doesn't mean they are thick. Why on earth would anyone bother googling "colourful slang", unless you have a very great interest in colourful slang. Which you obviously do.

GoodbyeToAllOfThat · 12/07/2015 17:46

I am pretty fed up with "massive/massively".

mathanxiety · 13/07/2015 05:59

Chandler -- I find it odd that nothing in any of what you posted gives you a hint of the meaning. Part of what makes speaking English an asset is that it opens doors to other Anglophone cultures. When you listen with an open mind you start to appreciate the exuberance and versatility of English.

TheHouseOnBellSt · 13/07/2015 06:02

I'm having issues with "brought"

"My Mum brought a new fridge and it's broken already"

BROUGHT??? Really!

I see it all the time!

ZingDramaQueenOfSheeba · 13/07/2015 06:48

scruly

watch Office Space. excellent use of "mmmkay" throughout!Grin