To wonder how exactly the tories want you to prove you where raped?

[ghostyslovesheep]

In order to get CTC for a third child

I am utterly speechless at this

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jul/09/government-third-child-tax-credits-proposal-budget-rape

I was being flippant when I talked about rape tribunals Dora.

Though on consideration I think they would fly well with many people, not to mention the fact that as a thrusting entrepreneur and jobs creator I'm dismissing a lucrative business opportunity. And the chance to boost the economy - that's my main motivation, of course.

I'll ring the relevant government department tomorrow morning to find out where I can bid for this exciting and progressive contract.

5 more years. I don't think I can take that long.

What if you don't have children?

No Government is going to give you that element of your tax that covers Child Tax Credits for other people back, because that would be, like a ludicrously unworkable plan .

So how about if all those childless taxpayers - couples, singles, gay, straight, celibate, infertile, menopausal etc could donate that portion of their tax that they're not using to worthy parents who wanted to have more than two children?

We could make a reality TV show where they had to compete to show us the best 'journey' and futures projections showing the value of their children to society year-on-year.

I'm thinking more Dragons' Den than The Hunger Games but I'm open to persuasion.

Anyway, I think that's at least as sensible a proposal as this one.

I await my call from Gideon to discuss it.

I don't at all agree with the reduction in tax credits, but difficulty in verifying rape allegations is not a reason to not have measures in place to support rape victims. People don't actually go around crying rape for the sake of it you know.

"If you were raped, surely you would go to the police before discovering you were pregnant? There would be a paper trail before making a benefits claim."

85-90% of women who are raped do not report it.

Of the minority who do, only 6-7% end up going to court and getting a guilty verdict, even though it's accepted that the rate of false allegations is extremely low - around the 2-4% mark.

So er, no paper trail.

Seriously, do people really not know this stuff? Was that an honest question or a wind up?

I always think I have heard everything and then get completely shocked by the next horror coming from this government .

And if you live in Northern Ireland you don't even get the option of an abortion there.

I have a vague memory that Chris Grayling, Iain Duncan Smith and Tim Loughton - all ministers connected with this crackpot idea - are, if not anti-abortion, then at least strongly disapproving.

As is Jeremy Hunt, former Health Secretary.

Of course, people who transgress the Two Child Policy could always put their babies up for adoption. Well, the pretty ones anyway.

And we're still a lot more generous than China.

Irritable Duncan Syndrome did a fist-pump during the Budget speech.

I sincerely want to kill that cunt.

Slowly.

They really are a bunch of fucking misogynists.

But again... it is a journalist saying this.

The Department for Work and Pensions and HMRC will develop protections for women who have a third child as the result of rape, or other exceptional circumstances.
The government have nothing in place yet, but will be working on it, between now and the introductory date.

Would contraceptive failure count as exceptional circumstances? As we all know, nothing is 100% effective.
Aside from abstinence.
Presume the mythical woman in this situation would be remaining celibate, just in case.

If you were raped, surely you would go to the police before discovering you were pregnant?

I agree they will expect people to have reported a rape if they want tax credits for a third child. People might not report, but if it was going to be the thing that makes the difference between whether or not you can feed your children then maybe more women will report.

I don't think the tiny number of people that will get pregnant with their third child after rape and who decide to keep their pregnancy is a good reason not to limit CTCs to two children tbh.

No, LazyLouLou it is not a journalist saying it.

It appears to be contained in passage from the Budget speech or other government document, and has been highlighted by a SNP MP.

Personally, I think it's rabble-rousing and will be quietly dropped as unworkable.

Though I wouldn't put anything past them.

And what if the first child was a result of a rape but years later the woman wanted two children with her partner?

IDS needs a good fist bump, the bastard. This is the turd who claimed for his ceck's on ex's. I would like to see his head on a stake at the tower, despicable little man. .

IDS, the man who had his parliamentary credit card taken off him because he couldn't fill a fucking form in.

And I know it's anecdata, but how many people to you know, outside the Daily Mail, The Sun and Closer, who have significantly more than three children?

IME most people have one or two or none. Including those people I know who happen to be on benefits either because they are unemployed, working poor or entitled to some other benefit.

I know two families who have four and one family with six. They are considerably richer than me and I guess they either aren't eligible for Child Tax Credit or couldn't be bothered to apply.

How much money is this going to save our hard-working families as opposed to setting them up against each others' throats?

if it was going to be the thing that makes the difference between whether or not you can feed your children then maybe more women will report

Talk about putting a positive spin on it .

Of course, you'd have to factor in the extra cost of the police and Crown Prosecution investigations, court time if it got there - that's certainly not cheap - and prison time, also not cheap, if she secured a conviction for her rapist or alternatively was prosecuted and jailed for a false allegation.

The more I think about this, the more I think that the Government haven't thought about it and neither have other people.

So will being a Roman Catholic be 'exceptional circumstances'?

I hope they're going to think carefully about how they will deal with any false rape accusations that are made as a result of this.

LineRunner I am still persisting with the idea that it's ripe for ridicule rather than a goer.

But that's because I am the eternal optimist.

what if the first child was a result of a rape but years later the woman wanted two children with her partner?

VivaLeBeaver under the policy as I understand it the first and second children would count but the third one wouldn't.

That's a positive message because you'd have to really want the third one.

Same as if you were a bit disappointed with your first two but decided to go for another for the hell of it

I hope they're going to think carefully about how they will deal with any false rape accusations that are made as a result of this.

That is a very grave point and one that I'm glad you brought up PtolemysNeedle

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm really enjoying this thread.

IDS has four children. Isn't it lucky he married the daughter of a Baron...

He's an odd one, all right.