To think that the school admission system is a barrier to job moves

[SEsofty]

Thinking about a new job. Various options in different locations. I think it would be interesting for the whole family to move somewhere different in the uk for a while.

However, kids are in great schools and therefore I am terrified about moving and them be therefore unable to get into a decent school because would be applying for a school not at reception entry. And indeed having time without a school at all.

Therefore I am restricted in where I can look for jobs, so we don't have to move and change schools.

Multiply my situation across the country and its clear that this must be a huge barrier to growth and jobs.

So AIBU to think this, or is this an unnecessary worry

What exactly about the system is the barrier?
How would you change it to make it fair to people already living in the area or with kids in the schools?

The LA has to find you a school place, wherever you go.

Blu is right the LA has to find you a place it just might not be the place you want so actually it's your own expectations and preferences that are a barrier to moving for a different job.

how is moving schools a 'barrier'? most (state) junior schools are much of a muchness IME
On the other hand, children hate moving too much, but that is nothing to do with the 'system.
Is it the Ofsted grading that concerns you?

it does kind of amuse me to see schools divided into 'decent' and ....what? 'indecent'?

I think yabu but I can't see what you're actually saying. If you are moving jobs then you have plenty of flexibility to decide where to live I assume. Move if you like, your kids will have a school.

It is not the schools admission system that is at fault anyway.

The problem is that there are some schools that are inadequate (in the real rather than Ofsted sense).

However, kids are in great schools and therefore I am terrified about moving and them be therefore unable to get into a decent school because would be applying for a school not at reception entry. And indeed having time without a school at all.

Therefore I am restricted in where I can look for jobs, so we don't have to move and change schools.

What solution would you propose? Should all schools hold back a number of places in case people happen to want to move into the area for purposes of career progression?

OP, I am about to move to Germany and there, when we knew we were moving we emailed the local education authority and told them our rough moving date. They booked us places at the Kindergarten for our 2 girls and we had the same chances/rights as parents who were already living there which meant we got them into the Kindergarten closest to our house. If we'd been later notifying them we would have had less choice as places are allocated well in advance, but as all the schools are a decent standard it's not that much of a worry. That is what a decent school admission system looks like. YANBU.

I see where you are coming from OP. You don't want to move to an area until you know your kids have school places, and you can't get a school place until you've moved to the area! I've often wondered how you get round this without an awful lot of stress.

And people don't always CHOOSE to move, they lose their job in one place and need to move elsewhere in the country for a new job. Presumably MN Tory-voters would prefer that to them staying in the original area and living off benefits.

I don't know what the solution is though, other than a few places being held back for incomers mid-year.

I'd prefer to see all schools reaching what OP calls a decent standard.

But it could be like Germany, and just be given your officially allocated place (ie abolish giving preference, and just go straight to nearest school with vacancy).

Admissions isn't the problem. The problem is the hit and miss standards of schools.

You can't rectify the problem you describe. Schools can not leave some places empty, in case people move, while denying some local kids entry to keep those places open. And if they did, why happens when those places go to? Keep adding children? If admissions numbers can be ignored for kids moving into the area, then they should be ignored for the local children already living there.

You are choosing to move. You want your kids in a good school. So this needs to be part of the final decision.

Some people can't afford too move area and don't get the choice of what school their kids go to. Their kids, unfortunately, just have to go to a rubbish school.

toomuch how is that different from the UK process? Forgive my ignorance.

I see where you are coming from. I remember locating back to the UK and finding places for both dcs in a good school dominated our house search. However it's just a fact of life. Not much can be done.

We moved 2yrs ago, yes school places were stressful (oversubscribed borough generally) and we didn't get where we wanted but DS got a place sorted and is fine.
School places were a consideration but not a barrier to our move.
I am another one that would rather they strive to improve all schools than give parents this artificial notion of choice.

I get you OP. We're due to move back to London next year and will need to find a YR 1 place for DS, and it makes me feel sick with anxiety every time I think about it! It's not even the varying standards of the schools that worries me, it's being allocated a school miles and miles away and having to struggle on multiple buses at rush hour with 2 small children.

Thank you frumble. It's also the stories about weeks without a school or having to take them both in opposite directions at the same time.

bittapitta in the UK (at least in London) there are fairly strict rules about being resident at the address you put on your application at the time the application goes in and having proof that it's your permanent address. We hadn't even completed on our house purchase in Germany when they accepted our application!

The problem isn't so much the admissions process as the lack of school places in some areas... School places haven't kept pace with rising demographics... More investment in school places is the answer... The admissions process is extremely fair and reasonable in my opinion....

As for the idea of keeping back places on the off chance people will move... Any such place kept back would mean an actual, real children living in the area here and now not getting in rather than a potential child that may or may not appear... This would hardly be a fairer system!

Yes, I agree about the lack of places rather than the admissions process itself. I started a thread in the education topic a few months ago, asking about finding a school place for DS in the London borough we're hoping to return to, and some of the responses I got were so bleak it made me want to cry.

The German system sounds good in theory, but it would only work if demand didn't substantially exceed supply.... Which clearly isn't the case for the most popular schools in our areas. There would be a glut of speculative applications for people who were planning or trying to move into the area, that would need to get weeded out before September if they didn't get places, which in turn would open up places to the next on a waiting list, sending knock-on ripples through the system and kids not knowing what school they were starting at until term itself started....which would be terrible state of affairs.

Even if we did have more school places, some schools will always be, or be seen to be, better and therefore more popular, which will always lead to some schools being over-subscribed.... Our system is a product of the choice that we are given... If we want choice, the current admissions system is the price we have to pay!

YANBU at all, OP. If you were moving to my area you would be allocated places at the schools which have spaces left, ie the shit schools that nobody wants to send their kids to. If you moved into the right catchment area you could have your kids on the waiting lists for nice schools and if you were very, very lucky they might one day get in...

Pippidoes.... Ok, it sucks that places aren't still available at top local schools but how is that the admission system's fault? What do you suggest?

I agree with you OP. We are due to move back to the UK next summer and have a DD who would be starting in reception. We can't do anything about the move and timing - that's just how it is. However, we'll be moving back to London and can't apply in advance so goodness knows where we'll end up. The irony is that we are currently in the US and here she'd be guaranteed a Kindergarten place at our local so-called 'in boundary' school. I don't like much about the US education system (not to mention the armed guards at the school doors) but guaranteeing everyone a place at their local catchment area school shouldn't be beyond the wit of man/woman. The school here knows well in advance how many children it will need to cater for and adapts/expands accordingly over the summer break (long - 4 months or so). Admittedly, there is a lot more space here so expansion is relatively easy.

Snap wibbley! We're in the US too and for all them flaws of the state' s public school system (and there are many; the state we live in is currently ranked 48th for education...) the security of knowing that he'd be guaranteed place at the local school, even if we moved school districts mid-year makesna small part of me wish we could stay here.

It's frustrating, because the potential flexibility that we have from not owning property in London will be wasted. If we could find out from the borough in advance where DS had a chance of a school place, we could rent a place nearby, but as we can't apply until we have a permanent address we may well be faced with a trek twice a day.

YANBU.

We're abroad too (France). For primary and junior high school you are guaranteed a place at your local school - of course there are some crappy schools so it makes sense to do your homework before moving. We moved a few months before our oldest started secondary, secure in the knowledge that we were guaranteed a place in the nearest school.

There's also none of this applying a year ahead nonsense - secondary places are applied for in May/June and allocated late June.