25 when did it become not an adult?

[Samcro]

so under 25 you don't get the new wage.
surely 25 is and adult. someone who has left education and home, hopefully been working a few years so why?
why is say (for example) a 23 yr old thought to be worth less?

The removal of grants to be loans instead does not help the young either.

Nmw is the same for everyone - the higher wage is called the 'living wage'.

The justification of allowing under 25s to be paid less is that a small business that might not be able to afford to pay somebody the living wage may be able to pay the nmw, therefore a job that would not otherwise exist is made available to an under 25 year old. Bear in mind that many small business owners will be earning less than the minimum wage.

so over 25 = living wage
under doesn't
yet both groups do the same work and have same expense's
how the hell can that be right

Because in some cases the job would not exist at all if the employer had to pay the living wage.

so it is all about making money for the bosses
not helping the worker

If you can't afford to pay your workers a decent wage your business isn't viable. You can't expect your employees' parents or the welfare state to subsidise cheap labour so that companies can make bigger profits.

If someone can't afford to pay a living wage they shouldn't be in business.

No, they will be in business but just work longer hours.

Loads of sole traders make hardly any money and earn less than nmw themselves when you take into account the hours they work.

The balance is between giving employers rights while encouraging business owners to become employers.

25 ceased to be an adult when children ceased to mature beyond adolescence. If a child in incapable of growing up mentally, taking responsibility for its own life, and the decisions it makes, and deciding to support itself, if remains in the family home playing computer games and spending welfare on socialising with its friends.

At least that's what happens where I live. Some 25 year olds are eminently capable, and staggerings more motivated and entrepreneurial than I was when I was 25. The local mechanic is maybe only 20 and he's running his own business, despite the slew of high street chain tyre and brake garages. He'll get our business whenever we need it. But for the most part the kids hang around town, roaming their domain, being obnoxious, or they are dropped off by mummy, flip burgers, and spend their time speculating about BB and BGT. Sad I know.

Don't get me wrong. On the maturity scale, flipping burgers ranks higher up the chart than prissy little middle income daughter with her nail appointment and the car daddy bought her for her 18th birthday. Adult I think is a definition of maturity, and OP is trying at ascribe an age to that.

Basically you are enabling the chippy in the village to create a job that wouldn't otherwise exist.

If someone can't afford to pay a living wage they shouldn't be in business.

If someone is incapable of providing £9 worth of utility, then they are not worth employing. Just because the government says the minimum wage is £9, that does not mean everyone is worth £9 an hour. What it means is, those that are not worth £9 an hour now have no hope in hell of ever finding work, because the government has now made it illegal for anyone to employ you.

The minimum wage will trap people in increasing depths of poverty, because it removes any option they once had of competing in the job market. The minimum wage effectively sets the bar, and says, "If you are unable to achieve this level of value, you are not ever worth employing." The minimum wage was the biggest blow to the working poor in this budget.

Regardles of the rights and wrongs of setting a living wage it is not right that under 25's are discriminated in this way.

Surely if this is how under 25's are to be treated then they must also become exempt from paying NHS Prescription fees, NHS dental fees, zero VAT on their clothes and shoes.

Crikey is there not an MP in scotland younger than 25? Doctors, policemen, teachers. Why does the government assume that if you are under 25 you do not need to earn a decent living wage to support a family?

MrsDeVere You completely missed the point.

If a job needs doing, and the government says you must pay £9 an hour, anyone not worth £9 an hour is no longer employable. There will always be queues of people willing to take work, but the government has now made it illegal to employ those incapable of providing £9 of utility.

I have nothing against a living wage. I do have something against a system designed to ensure the least capable in society are prevented from improving their lot by making it illegal for them to provide competition in the marketplace.

We will see an increase in long term unemployed because of this measure. They will be vilified within the system, driven deeper into poverty, and their suicide rate will rise.

And if someone's labour does not justify paying them at the wage floor their job will go poof.

I can't work out what you are saying in this sentence. Are you saying everyone is worth paying at the wage floor, no matter how inept? Or are you saying people who's productive efforts are not worth the wage floor will find themselves without work?

Do you believe all individuals, no matter how incompetent, or inept, are worth paying regardless?

So, if someone is not capable of bestowing minimum wage value in exchange for minimum wage, they will not find employment?

so what they are doing is extending the second tier of NMW to age 25 up from age 21... top tier ("living wage") after 25...

so it was all right for people age 21 and under to earn differently for exactly the same job, but now they have extended it to 25 everyone hates it?

16-17 will still be on £3 something an hour for the same job as a 21 year old on £6 something and a 26 year old on £7 something.

(they are still allowing HB after age 21)

Somewhere I had a problem with it before, it's just even worse now

itsnot Its not that one would cover less material if in a work study program. It's just the classes are organized to fit into 1-3 days per week.

Also, I manage to keep up with changes in accounting and I am an instructor of new hires plus teach specialist accounting areas of goodwill and hedge accounting to those senior to me. My 10 years of experience makes me more than qualified.

maman I don't like stats that say there is a shortage of employees with a degree. What are the areas where there is a shortage of skilled labour?!? I think one would find the shortages are in nursing, IT and finance. These are all areas that don't need to be exclusively studied at university. The high cost of attending university puts young people off going into these careers.

chandler I can't think of one practical based subject that requires dedicated study. My father is an engineer who was a visiting professor at Imperial and is still considered a world leading expert in his area. He doesn't have a degree in engineering. He has a degree in economics due to his employer at the time requiring everyone have a degree. He went to night school and worked FT while completing the degree in 2.5 years when he lived in Canada. What he does have is 55 years of experience.

But that would only work if I'd started my degree knowing I wanted to teach and go on to a pgce afterwards. I may have decided to do law or accountancy. My flat mate on the same course joined Deloitte when we graduated. I'm not sure it's a good idea to pigeonhole 18yr olds. Another student on my course wanted to teach but hated her pgce and teaching practice and is now a management consultant! I'm sure we'd all agree that a decent standard of education has given us all an excellent grounding for both work and life in general. We all did history and politics btw.

I really hope it gets challenged. I was under 22 with 3 children, married and had a thriving business that paid not only my wage but an additional 4 people.
To say that under 25's don't have responsibilities is shocking..
Oh and living at home wasn't an option, care leaver.