UK mum separated by force from newborn in Spain. AIBU to be shocked this is taking so long to resolve?

[wigglylines]

Poor woman, poor baby too. I can't imagine what she's going through.

Why would they drag it out so long? How long does it take to get a DNA test FFS?

Story here www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/03/british-woman-says-she-was-separated-from-newborn-daughter-in-spain

[Petition link removed by MNHQ as we don't allow them in AIBU or anywhere other than our Petitions topic]

Ahh. You see I don't agree with people bring kept in the dark. Ever.

Unless it is 'proven' that the child is at risk of significant harm. And often that is only 'A' persons view. Which later is sometimes shown to be incorrect.

But then I too have a problem with the secrecy of the 'family courts' and the general lack of openness in SS.

Just how was she, at 36/38 weeks pregnant, going to help her mum who is living in Spain find a long term rental if she speaks no Spanish and needs translator for the hospital?

Not touching that petition with a barge pole.

A DNA test is a DNA test. The results won't change just because you take a long time about it. If there was any uncertainty about the result, they would have re-done the test.

If there are other reasons why they are taking so long, the mother is entitled to be told.

Woman previously known to be pregnant turns up at hospital, newish baby in hand, having recently given birth (Drs don't deny this), Occam's Razor says it's hers. The question over parentage seems a red herring and should have been much more quickly resolved.

There may be some legitimate questions that require social services involvement but I still feel she is being treated badly. If she is co-operating with the hospital there is no reason to keep the baby separate, there is no reason to give the baby formula. These decisions are not in the best interests of a new born that needs to be close to it's mother. I really think this woman has been victim of racism and doctors who can only imagine a very medicalised approach to birth. Claims up thread that all Spanish doctors and hospitals are perfect seem somewhat naive.

chaise I don't know about Spain or this case in particular, what i do know, is that if parents are suspected of having carried out a criminal act they will be kept in the dark until the police can gather the evidence required to question them. That's pretty standard. I agree that what can be shared should be shared with parents but it isn't always possible. As I say this is a general rule not related to this case. No idea what is happening with this one.

Lol at the perfection of Spain

But we don't know that the hospital haven't told her anything. All we know is what she is saying, and there's every chance that she's only disclosing that which will appeal to those who might sympathise with her. She may have been fully informed as to the reasons why this is taking so long, and they may be valid reasons and she may know that even if she doesn't agree with them. But because the hospital and SS will be bound by confidentiality they won't be able to disclose to the press that the baby is still at the hospital because of x/y reason, and such the witch hunt continues.....

I may be wrong, but think I read that the baby presented was not a newborn.

No system is perfect. I'm sure the family of the Italian woman on a temporary work placement in the Uk are not enamoured of the British system. Remember the case where she was not taking her bipolar meds and was forced to undergo a caesarian section. Then the baby was taken off her and going to be put up for adoption in the UK, although Italian. Now, I don't know what situation this arose from or what happened. Just that it is hard to know on the outside sometimes. And Draconian measures do exist even in 'progressive' and apparently open systems.

Some are saying why didn't they just call an ambulance.

Maybe, because the mum had just moved into the village a phone line hadn't been set up yet. There isn't a mobile signal in the whole of Spain. So maybe they couldn't call an ambulance.

Why did she wait until the next day?
well it doesn't give a time the baby was born. It is possible the baby was born at night. By the time mum and baby are ready to travel, and travelled 30 miles it's now the next day..

The 30 miles could also explain why even after birth they didn't call an ambulance, figuring would be quicker to take themselves. They might not have even realized you could call an ambulance for this. Info I had in a villa re ambulance was unless you was dying you got yourself to the hospital. Even then it might be quicker to take yourself.

You only have her story. It may be true. It may not be.

I'm wondering if it took some time to allow the hospital to get a court order requesting the dna test, and it has only been performed recently?

Either way, this whole story is more fishy than a fish market.

It says that the baby was born at 2am one day and they went to hospital the following day. So assuming that they didn't go in at 2am the following day, about 30 hours later.

Spanish news has not reported on this story at all, however some local British newspapers have.
According to these, Ms Cottle, her mother and 3 year old daughter arrived in Spain on first of June and stayed at several hotels while looking for accomodation for her mother who planned to stay in the area and teach English. On the sixteenth they signed a lease on an apartment and that night at 1:30 am Ms Cottle broke waters giving birth around forty minutes later.
Next day they went to local hospital to register birth but pedeatrician became suspicious as baby seemed older. Mother was checked and doctors confirmed she'd given birth and was lactating.
Ms Cottle,her mother and daughters returned to the apartment and within minutes police were there to get them back to hospital for tests

Are there suspicions that she is taking the baby from someone else? Or it isn't hers and she's brought it to Spain to try to anonymize the whole thing?

Their

It's not clear what they mean by "the next day". It reads to me as if she gave birth in the middle of the night and went to hospital the next morning, which wouldn't be particularly surprising if the baby was fine.

teal we are only hearing her side of the story as the Spanish have not reported on this at all so who knows what it is that the hospital are suspicious about. I'm not saying the baby is not hers but the doctors must have serious concerns and are being thorough

I would imagine that there are either real concerns that the baby is not hers, or that she knew her baby would be removed or have heavy social services intervention in the UK and she went to Spain to escape this.

It's simply not true to say she wouldn't have gone to the media if she'd done anything wrong. Plenty of people do. They give statements and interviews and help the police, because they believe they will do better "hiding in plain sight".

It's possible that the hospital have made a big mistake. It's possible that she is lying about something, knowing that the hospital will be legally unable to reveal too many details.

If it turns out that the baby is not hers, though, or that she intends to put it at serious risk, the hospital would be hugely criticised for not investigating properly.

And there are phones in Spain. She should have called, even if the baby was already born by the time it arrived, to have everyone checked over. If her mum didn't have a phone, her neighbours would have.

It looks suspicious to avoid medical intervention during the birth and then present a baby that seems too old... She could have at least avoided that line of questioning if she'd got medical care during or immediately after the birth, as is normal.

I don't known anything about this woman but I do know that there is a huge amount of racism in Spain.

We're not in a position to judge how 'odd' this behaviour was until we know more about the norms of the culture this woman - and her mother, who probably made the decision not to go to hospital - was coming from. It seems reasonable to suppose that they might not have the same expectation, formed over generations, that pregnancy and labour are medical issues that require hospital care. During the forty minutes that she laboured, her mother may well have been utterly engrossed in supporting her. As for afterwards, I don't think there is a mother in Britain that would have a home birth and then stir themselves to take a newborn baby along crappy roads to hospital, probably without a car (and with the emergency over, it would have seemed strange to call an ambulance). In a situation like labour, there is no way to behave that seems normal, especially if you're a bystander (as I was last week).

The woman was clued in enough to bring the placenta to the hospital. That shows that she and her mother knew what they were doing sufficiently to know that the bit the hospital would really need to check was that the placenta was intact. She was taking care of herself and being responsible. She brought the baby too.

It does sound like the hospital is making a lot of assumptions and consequently de-prioritising her rights as a mother, which will be to the baby's detriment. Discussing her as a migrant in front of her certainly ticks the racism box. Even if one of the far-fetched theories is correct, it will do the baby no harm to have lots of skin-to-skin and breast-feeding on demand, which is what a breast-feeding mother in hospital tends to do.

No one would take this story to the press if it wasn't true, knowing that the truth was about to come out in a DNA test.

From what jamais has said about birth in Spain, it sounds v similar to here in Italy- very medicalised and very controlled at every stage. I think here there would be exactly the same intervention. Questions would be asked. It's also v normal for mothers and babies to be kept in different parts of the hospital, rightly or wrongly.
I imagine that, together with the undeniable questions raised by her race (because I was not Italian I had mutterings about 'she must be a teenage mother' - then I turned round and showed them my 38 yr old unteenage face) is why things are taking so long.
I don't believe half of her story either.

It all sounds a bit strange and I wouldn't be comfortable signing anything until I were a lot more sure of the facts surrounding things.
As for jamais point about racism in Spain, lovely for her, but it really does exist, always had, always will.

The article in The Guardian says the birth took place 33 miles from Malaga. I think this is confusing people who may think they were that far away from a hospital, not so.
Where the birth took place is a few minutes away from a very large perfectly equipped hospital where many people speak at least some English as lots of expats live in that area.
No crappy roads to negotiate or difficulty getting to the hospital, a taxi would have had her there in minutes.

When I read the story in the paper, it sounded like she gave birth without any medical help during or after. That's a bit strange surely.

I would want to know a lot more before signing that petition. It seems like a very strange situation.