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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think an out of control dog should be always on the lead?

161 replies

hibbledibble · 04/07/2015 20:31

I was going for a walk in the park today with dds, both under 5, and my dh and dog. Our dog is a small mixed breed, with a very gentle nature, and is impeccably behaved.

I saw 2 dogs which I knew to be aggressive (they have attacked/tried to attack our dog numerous times before). I immediately picked up our dog to protect her. One of the dogs, a powerful breed, then comes up to me, growling, scratching and trying to climb up my leg to reach my dog. I'm pretty scared at this point, and so is older dd.

Dog owner makes no effort to remove dog, other than meekly calling her over, which the dog ignores of course. Dh comes and removes aggressive dog from me by grapping her harness. Only at this point does the dog owner want to take control of his dog 'give me my dog'.

There was no apology, and in fact the owner was verbally aggressive, saying I knew nothing about dogs! No idea what this is meant to mean..

I was pretty schook up, and spoke to a bystander who said he has seen said dog be aggressive many times.

Aibu to think dogs like this should always be on the lead? It is always off the lead. I have tried previously to tell the owner that his dog is out of control and should be on the lead, but he said it would never hurt anyone!!

Wwyd?

I'm worried about walking my poor dog in our local park.

OP posts:
StarsInTheNightSky · 05/07/2015 16:22

kardamyli feel free to get a flight over to my country and see if your tactics work on my dogs, I have two Caucasian Ovcharkas and a Fila Braseilio, I think your record of never being bitten would come to an end! Grin. My dogs would never attack unprovoked but they are extremely protective when they think we have an aggressor near us.

StarsInTheNightSky · 05/07/2015 16:25

Oh, and where I live I'm entitled to deal with trespassers however I see fit, including seeing my dogs on them if I want to.

StarsInTheNightSky · 05/07/2015 16:25

*setting, not seeing.

Kardamyli · 05/07/2015 16:27

Tab, can you point me to where reasonable fear is defined for the purposes of the relevant legislation? I can't see it in the act itself.

scarletforya · 05/07/2015 16:29

So you're 'preventatively' kicking them?

I'd love to be there when you explain this to the judge.

You're an animal abuser. Unacceptable.

Kardamyli · 05/07/2015 16:30

Stay, why would I want to come and meet your dogs? I think I've made it quite clear I can't stand the creatures! And I can assure you it is extremely unlikely I'd be aggressive to you or anyone else if we should ever meet.

tabulahrasa · 05/07/2015 16:32

"Scarlet, how am I to know that the sniffing slobbering or other general unpleasant dog behaviour isn't the prelude to being bitten."

Because you're a mentally competent adult.

Reasonable fear is from the dangerous dogs act, which covers expected dog behaviour.

Their behaviour isn't covered by the same legislation as expected human behaviour towards animals, the laws interact as most do.

Kardamyli · 05/07/2015 16:32

No Scarlet, I'm kicking them to get them to leave me alone because they are harassing me. I can assure you I would never approach a dog, it is always the dogs that approach me and sometimes don't go away when told to shoo.

StarsInTheNightSky · 05/07/2015 16:36

Ahh I see, you only preventatively kick those which can't defend themselves, or those which are too good natured to. Hmm I would honestly like to see you try your tactics against a dog which is prepared to defend itself. If the dog was going to attack you, kicking or hitting it with a stick would be the worst possible thing to do, you would only provoke it more.

Kardamyli · 05/07/2015 16:47

Tab, I can't see the definition in the dangerous dogs act either. Can you give me the full reference? Despite your assertion that " the laws interact as most do" there is a general rule that a defined term in one piece of legislation doesn't have the same meaning in another piece of legislation unless it is expressly stated that the same definition applies.

As the term isn't defined in the animal welfare act I would say that it is likley that the courts will apply the normal meaning to "reasonable fear". Therefore if I was reasonably fearful that a dog which is harassing me could bite me, a swift kick in the ribs for the purpose of making it go away would be a reasonable and proportionate response.

Fluffy40 · 05/07/2015 16:49

This thread is very boring, just take a photo of dog and owner and pass to the police.

Kardamyli · 05/07/2015 16:49

Stars, I've made it very clear on more than one occasion that I would only kick a dog to get it to leave me alone. I couldn't care less about your dogs, it seems very unlikely that I will ever meet them, or you.

ScorpioMermaid · 05/07/2015 16:53

Yanbu.
We have a 10m old Staffordshire Bull Terrier. she is absolutely lovely but a typical bouncy, excitable, over friendly pooch. she is not badly behaved, as such, when we walk her but cannot be off her lead as she is deaf. she is learning recall in the garden but obviously has to see you.. had work when around other dogs I tell you! she has 3 dogs that she knows that she socialises well with, another staff and 2 JRT, they have a great time playing etc. but gets so excited with other dogs and people, she thinks everyone wants to play and obviously they don't! she will sit etc if theyre around but it lasts about 30 seconds. We will walk her on her lead forever if she doesn't learn, that's how it will be. thankfully we have a massive garden for her to run around, play fetch, chase etc to her hearts content, off the lead! Grin

StarsInTheNightSky · 05/07/2015 16:54

kardamyli yes, and the only dogs to which kicking would be a deterrent would be the ones who weren't going to attack you anyway. If you're happy to kick a dog who isn't going to attack you that speaks volumes about the sort of person you are.

OP, I'm sorry, I'll stop derailing now and go walk my dogs on my property.

tabulahrasa · 05/07/2015 16:59

"Therefore if I was reasonably fearful that a dog which is harassing me could bite me, a swift kick in the ribs for the purpose of making it go away would be a reasonable and proportionate response."

See that word you keep using, I don't think it means what you think it means.

Reasonable is not being violent because a dog that has the potential to bite, but isn't acting in a way that would make it likely sniffs you.

Kardamyli · 05/07/2015 17:03

So in your world stars I just have to put up with being harassed by other people's dogs? Anyway, I think you're talking nonsense, there's plenty of reports of otherwise docile seeming dogs suddenly snapping and biting someone.

Kardamyli · 05/07/2015 17:11

Tab, I'm pretty sure after looking at the legislation that I'm right and you're wrong. In fact if I was to be prosecuted for kicking a dog it might not even be under the animal welfare act which seems on a cursory reading to be concerned with the way owners treat their animals. Quite possible such a prosecution would be under common law.

Anyway, Fluffy was right, this thread is boring. Just take a picture whenever you see me kicking your dog and report me to the police.

tabulahrasa · 05/07/2015 17:18

You wouldn't be kicking my dog, he'd be nowhere near you.

But I would report you if I saw you kicking another dog, just as I would if I was a witness to any other crime.

You can think you're right all you want, but so far not being caught isn't the same as it being acceptable behaviour.

Lurkedforever1 · 05/07/2015 17:22

theres also plenty more reports of paedophiles, who unlike dogs that attack unprovoked often get away with it for years before being caught. so should we all be following your tactics whenever an adult stranger is within kicking distance and pre-empt the tiny possibility they're a child molester?
I'm not suggesting that I think its logical or acceptable to hysterically label all adults as peados I'm just using it to demonstrate how ridiculous your argument is. You might not like dogs, but your reaction is judging dog owners as people. Its not acceptable to judge any other group that covers a massive demographic by the actions of a stupid minority so its beyond me why this appears to be ok when it comes to dog owners.

TipseyKisses · 05/07/2015 18:23

Still going Grin

Are you not bored ?

They do prosecute people who hurt animals for no reason , dangerous dogs are one thing , everyone has agreed they should be controlled & leashed , what you have said through out this thread is any dog who came near you .

www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/appeal-help-after-dog-hurt-7959512

tabulahrasa · 05/07/2015 18:26

I've read them, more than once, lol.

I also understand the concept that a dog has to actually do something to make a person scared, not merely sniff them.

Which is the bit you seem to be struggling with...

TipseyKisses · 05/07/2015 18:34

It does state under the part marked LAW about prevention of harm that people can be prosecuted .

www.cps.gov.uk/legal/d_to_g/offences_involving_domestic_and_captive_animals/

JohnCusacksWife · 05/07/2015 19:55

Personally I don't believe Kardamyli has ever kicked a dog in her/his life. I think they're a troll who enjoys winding people up and will do so as long as people keep taking the bait.

Kardamyli · 05/07/2015 20:30

Tipsey it is the dog owner who can be prosecuted for having a dangerous dog, or for docking dog tails etc. one kick from me with my pumps on is very unlikely to cause any damage to the average dog.

JohnCusack, I can assure you I'm not a troll and that I have indeed kicked a dog who wouldn't leave me alone. I would do exactly the same thing again. If lazy and stupid dog owners would learn to keep their dogs away from people who don't want the dogs attention there wouldn't be a problem.

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