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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think an out of control dog should be always on the lead?

161 replies

hibbledibble · 04/07/2015 20:31

I was going for a walk in the park today with dds, both under 5, and my dh and dog. Our dog is a small mixed breed, with a very gentle nature, and is impeccably behaved.

I saw 2 dogs which I knew to be aggressive (they have attacked/tried to attack our dog numerous times before). I immediately picked up our dog to protect her. One of the dogs, a powerful breed, then comes up to me, growling, scratching and trying to climb up my leg to reach my dog. I'm pretty scared at this point, and so is older dd.

Dog owner makes no effort to remove dog, other than meekly calling her over, which the dog ignores of course. Dh comes and removes aggressive dog from me by grapping her harness. Only at this point does the dog owner want to take control of his dog 'give me my dog'.

There was no apology, and in fact the owner was verbally aggressive, saying I knew nothing about dogs! No idea what this is meant to mean..

I was pretty schook up, and spoke to a bystander who said he has seen said dog be aggressive many times.

Aibu to think dogs like this should always be on the lead? It is always off the lead. I have tried previously to tell the owner that his dog is out of control and should be on the lead, but he said it would never hurt anyone!!

Wwyd?

I'm worried about walking my poor dog in our local park.

OP posts:
tabulahrasa · 05/07/2015 13:34

A dog within 2 or 3 feet of you doesn't constitute a threat, that may be your opinion, but the police will not agree with you and dogs are protected by animal welfare acts.

If you'd actually bothered to read the thread before spouting off your very wrong opinion, you might have noticed that the whole thread was pretty much people agreeing that dogs should only be offlead if they're under control.

Dogs should be under control and not causing a nuisance to anybody else, but that doesn't make violence a reasonable reaction in any circumstance other than actual self defence.

Lurkedforever1 · 05/07/2015 13:37

Dogs don't have the same right as people but dog owners have an equal right to their enjoyment as none dog owners. i didn't say I woul allow my dog to deliberately attack or threaten anyone, nor do I condone it. but not all dog owners are responsible and I'm simply stating the fact an aggressive or untrained dog would respond well to being kicked.
You clearly have the same bizarre preconceptions about dog owners as you do dogs, but for the record someone would need to approach me aggressively before my dog even growled, and they'd then need to be pretty stupid to ignore that and to make physical contact with me at which point I think the dog would take it further. And he's well trained enough he'll respond to me even then.

Kardamyli · 05/07/2015 13:39

Tab, a dog within 2 or 3 feet may or may not be a threat. Dogs are unpredictable and as I said above do not have the same rights as people. If I feel that a dog is a threat to me becuase it is not on a lead and it is so close I can touch it, I am completely within my rights to kick or hit the dog to make it go away. Why do some people think the rights of dogs are equal to the rights of people?

Kardamyli · 05/07/2015 13:41

Lurked, pleased to see you agree with me that kicking is the way to go.

Kardamyli · 05/07/2015 13:43

I think it is only as matter of time before much stricter dog laws are brought in. Dogs on leads in all public places for a start.

DoreenLethal · 05/07/2015 13:44

Don't pick your dog up! My bitch is big & powerful, people with small dogs often pick them up when they see her coming.

Er - keep your big powerful dog on a fucking lead then!

TipseyKisses · 05/07/2015 13:44

Actually kardamyli from the experiences I've had with the dog warden & police you would need to prove the dog was acting in an aggressive manner when you kicked /hit it and caused it an injury just for minding it's own business .

You can't just kick / hit a dog for being near you , that is cruelty !

tabulahrasa · 05/07/2015 13:49

"Why do some people think the rights of dogs are equal to the rights of people?"

No, they have their own rights, they are legally protected animals under the animal welfare act and therefore causing unnecessary suffering to one is a criminal offence.

They were too close is not a valid defence.

Kardamyli · 05/07/2015 13:49

As I've said Tipsy, I've never had aproblem when kicking a dog to keep it away. Owners are usually oblivious as miles away and I have yet to see a dog warden in the flesh.

I don't go around looking for dogs to kick. If a dog is in my personal space uninvited I am entitled to treat that as a threat and deal with it how I see fit.

Kardamyli · 05/07/2015 13:53

Tab and others, the reality of the situation is that if I say that a dog approached me and growled and that I therefore kicked it to defend myself and make it go away I will not be prosecuted!

In all cases where I've kicked a dog to make it go away it has not been on a lead or otherwise under control.

DoreenLethal · 05/07/2015 13:54

No, they have their own rights, they are legally protected animals under the animal welfare act and therefore causing unnecessary suffering to one is a criminal offence.

If a dog is off its lead in a public place and approaches at speed, then surely most people would kick out rather than get mauled? I know I would.

tabulahrasa · 05/07/2015 14:01

"I say that a dog approached me and growled and that I therefore kicked it to defend myself and make it go away I will not be prosecuted!"

Probably not, but lying tends to affect outcomes.

Also the fact that you'd feel the need to lie shows that actually you know full well that your behaviour isn't acceptable.

Doreen - I've never been mauled by a dog running at me at speed, but that would be self defence and entirely different.

Kardamyli · 05/07/2015 14:01

In the situation Doreen describes any suffering to the dog would not be unnecessary. If anyone should be in trouble for the dog being kicked or hit it should be the person who is with the dog. It is their inaction in failing to keep the dog under control that would be the cause of any suffering.

TipseyKisses · 05/07/2015 14:02

Fortunately the dog warden wouldn't agree with you on that & no you probably haven't seen any out & about , we had to ring ourselves to make a complaint .

If a dog is genuinely attacking you that's a different matter , you do what you must to stay safe but kicking one that's minding it's own business ? That's just not on !

Kardamyli · 05/07/2015 14:06

I don't think my behaviour is unacceptable at all. I am just aware that the UK is a nation which is over sentimental about pets. Strange how people object to an out of control dog being shoo'd away with a quick kick, but are quite happy to ignore the horrible conditions farmed animals like chickens and hens are kept in.

Kardamyli · 05/07/2015 14:08

Tipsy, that's my point! A dog is not minding its own business if it approaches me uninvited, it becomes my business to get it to go away when it gets close enough to sniff / slobber etc.

TipseyKisses · 05/07/2015 14:11

Well What a load of old bollocks this has turned into Grin

Good luck OP , I hope you manage to get somewhere with the police !

I'm off to walk my dogs whilst the weather is nice - not interested in derailing the thread further & starting a convo about chickens or any other animals Grin

mrsdavidbowie · 05/07/2015 14:11

My dad always carried a walking stick when out for a walk and would use it if a dog tried to attack him.

tabulahrasa · 05/07/2015 14:13

I don't ignore anything about the conditions of farm animals, thanks...

Ok then, You're somebody who is quite happy to break the law and then lie about it because you don't agree with the law...yes, I now have much more respect for your opinion.

Well done, you win.

Kardamyli · 05/07/2015 14:33

Think what you like Tab, it doesn't bother me that a stranger on the Internet doesn't respect me.

Original poster
hibbledibble · 05/07/2015 14:42

kardamyli you sound like a very unpleasant person. I really hope what you are saying is not true. Have you really kicked a dog for sniffing you? What did the owner do?

If you kicked someone's dog it is criminal damage, as according to law a dog is property.

If you detest dogs so much then just ask the owner to call them back. Kicking would only put you in danger of injury.

OP posts:
Kardamyli · 05/07/2015 14:51

Hibble, yes I have kicked a dog to get it to stop sniffing and slobbering on me. Owner miles away totally oblivious and had no idea I had kicked the dog, in fact to this day I have no idea who the owner was. If you don't want your property damaged you shouldn't leave it unattended in a public place.

I suspect most of you would quite happily kick out at (insert name of animal you dislike) if it came up to you uninvited, so why is it a surprise when I do the same?

tabulahrasa · 05/07/2015 15:00

"I suspect most of you would quite happily kick out at (insert name of animal you dislike) if it came up to you uninvited"

Really? I suspect most people wouldn't because it's actually pretty extreme behaviour.

Original poster
hibbledibble · 05/07/2015 15:00

kardamyli no there is no animal I would kick if it approached me. There is no animal I dislike, but even if it were the case I would just move away.

Put it this way. If you approached a dog and it bit you, you would think the dog unreasonable, why is it different the other way around?

Your argument about property is also completely flawed. If I accidentally left a breakable item in a public place, it wouldn't give you a right to break it.

OP posts:
Kardamyli · 05/07/2015 15:11

Hibble, moving away from dogs doesn't stip them sniffing and slobbering, they just follow. Anyway, why should I be the one to move?

I would never approach a dog so your analogy is meaningless. In any event, Dogs are not rational beings so to apply your logic is pointless. Dogs aren't capable of reason, so no, I wouldn't think a dog was unreasonable.

If you leave a breakable item unattended in a public place would you be surprised if it was damaged or went missing? Same principle applies to dogs.

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