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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think an out of control dog should be always on the lead?

161 replies

hibbledibble · 04/07/2015 20:31

I was going for a walk in the park today with dds, both under 5, and my dh and dog. Our dog is a small mixed breed, with a very gentle nature, and is impeccably behaved.

I saw 2 dogs which I knew to be aggressive (they have attacked/tried to attack our dog numerous times before). I immediately picked up our dog to protect her. One of the dogs, a powerful breed, then comes up to me, growling, scratching and trying to climb up my leg to reach my dog. I'm pretty scared at this point, and so is older dd.

Dog owner makes no effort to remove dog, other than meekly calling her over, which the dog ignores of course. Dh comes and removes aggressive dog from me by grapping her harness. Only at this point does the dog owner want to take control of his dog 'give me my dog'.

There was no apology, and in fact the owner was verbally aggressive, saying I knew nothing about dogs! No idea what this is meant to mean..

I was pretty schook up, and spoke to a bystander who said he has seen said dog be aggressive many times.

Aibu to think dogs like this should always be on the lead? It is always off the lead. I have tried previously to tell the owner that his dog is out of control and should be on the lead, but he said it would never hurt anyone!!

Wwyd?

I'm worried about walking my poor dog in our local park.

OP posts:
tabulahrasa · 05/07/2015 15:13

I leave my car unattended in public all the time, I'd definitely call the police if it was missing or damaged.

Kardamyli · 05/07/2015 15:20

Tab, You and Hibble may think I am extreme and unpleasant but I strongly dislike dogs and don't want them anywhere near me (no, I don't have a phobia I just think they are disgusting) The only time they do come near me is when not under control of the owner / walker and that is the only time I have ever kicked one.

Original poster
hibbledibble · 05/07/2015 15:21

kardamyli I'm not going to engage with you anymore as I don't think you are capable of reasoning. The fact that you said you would lie if challenged shows you know you are in the wrong.

I think dogs are a lot more reasonable than you Grin

To be clear, my issue from the op is with the owner, not the dog.

OP posts:
Kardamyli · 05/07/2015 15:22

And if you left a glass vase unattended in the park Tab would it be a shock to you that it got broken?

Kardamyli · 05/07/2015 15:26

Fine Hibble I will clear off too as have stuff to do, but I know I'm well within my rights to kick any stinking dog that approaches me uninvited.

If dog owners kept their dogs on leads I would never have felt that I needed to take such action.

tabulahrasa · 05/07/2015 15:30

"I know I'm well within my rights to kick any stinking dog that approaches me uninvited."

Except you're not, because the law says otherwise.

I don't know why that's hard to understand?

Kardamyli · 05/07/2015 15:32

Tab, which is the law which says I'm not allowed to kick a dog which is invading my person space? Can you copy the sections of the act which says that please?

ElkTheory · 05/07/2015 15:33

YANBU. I believe that all dogs should be on leads in public, with only a few exceptions (in terms of places, not dogs). I love dogs. My lovely (properly leashed) dog was attacked by a German shepherd that was about twice his size. The owner was right there, chatting away on his phone. He called out ineffectually but didn't even bother to put down his phone. The attack was absolutely terrifying. When I finally managed to get my dog away, the owner of the German shepherd actually blamed my dog for the incident!

As for the kicking dogs tangent, wasn't there a similar poster on another dog-related thread? Or is it the same person? I rather hope the latter. It would be utterly depressing if there were more than one person on MN who believed kicking dogs to be acceptable behaviour.

tabulahrasa · 05/07/2015 15:33

Animal welfare act, section 4

JohnCusacksWife · 05/07/2015 15:36

Can I ask you a question, Kardamyli? I was out walking my dog this morning on a narrow path behind my house. My dog was off lead and walking a little ahead of me. If we had passed you would you have attempted to kick him given that he would have probably been within a couple of feet of you?

MandyCC · 05/07/2015 15:43

Well if you were to lie about kicking the dog unprovoked, I could lie about kicking you also.I think you are putting yourself and your children at huge risk kicking a dog you don't know could end very badly for you or your children. The dog may react and bite/maul one of you, surely ignoring is much more rational/sane plus an owner may do the same should they catch you. I could understand it it was defence against attack.

Kardamyli · 05/07/2015 15:47

Tab, I don't agree that giving a dog a swift kick to get it to go away does amount to unnecessary suffering. Bearing in mind that I don't wear steel toed Dr martens, the kick is unlikely to cause any permanent damage.

JohnCusack, no I wouldn't have kicked your dog if it just walked past me. As i explained above, I've only ever kicked dogs who are invading my personal space - ie approaching me to sniff / slobber / lick / jump up. If your dog ignored me I would ignore it.

Kardamyli · 05/07/2015 15:50

Mandy CC, I've been using the same method of getting dogs to leave me alone for years. I've never been bitten or kicked by an owner (when this happens the owners are not there, they are oblivious and miles away) or reported to a dog warden or prosecuted under the animal welfare act so don't plan to change my methods anytime soon.

tabulahrasa · 05/07/2015 15:53

You don't have to agree, kicking a dog for any reason other than defence from harm does legally constitute unnecessary suffering.

That's how laws work, not by each individual deciding how they will be applied.

StarsInTheNightSky · 05/07/2015 15:53

Threads like this, or more importantly some posters make me glad I only walk my dogs on my own property (except for once in a blue moon).
OP, as I said upthread, hope you get somewhere with the police. I have three giant dogs and would never let them approach anyone,let alone scare anyone or any other dogs, unless they were threatening us. I've taught my dogs to lie down if there are small children around so they look less intimidating.

Kardamyli · 05/07/2015 15:58

Well tab, my kicking a dog which is invading my personal space for the purposes of getting it to leave me alone would fall squarely within the terms of section 4 (3) (c) (ii) of the Act. The conduct would be for the purposes of protecting me from the animal. Given the number of horrific dog attacks there are these days I think that would be enough of a defence if the dog police ever catch me in the act of fending off a dog with my foot.

MandyCC · 05/07/2015 16:01

Thats not to say it won't ever happen. Pretty sure you'd feel guilty if your actions caused someone else to get hurt. You don't have to like dogs but kicking them is really cruel. They say the most dangerous people start of by hurting animals so maybe you need help.

tabulahrasa · 05/07/2015 16:06

No it wouldn't, the laws concerning dangerous dogs are applied to actual harm and a reasonable fear of harm...again, you don't get to decide what is reasonable, the law is clear about what it considers reasonable and being near you or snuffing you are not enough to cause a reasonable fear.

Kardamyli · 05/07/2015 16:06

Haha yeah Mandy CC I do need help. Help to get people to keep their stinky dogs away from me.

Kardamyli · 05/07/2015 16:10

i beg to differ Tab. It is absolutely reasonable for me to kick a dog to get it away from me because I have a reasonable fear that it is about to bite me. Anyway this hypothetical argument is pointless, who exactly is going to complain? The dog? Not the owner as in all cases where I have resorted to kicking the owner is nowhere to be seen.

scarletforya · 05/07/2015 16:13

kardamyli

You cruel bully.

How would you like to be kicked by something five times your size. You're despicable.

scarletforya · 05/07/2015 16:17

Don't try to make out now that it's fear or being bitten, you said earlier it was slobbering/licking.

I don't like dogs licking/slobbering either but I manage to avoid it without assaulting an innocent creature.

tabulahrasa · 05/07/2015 16:18

Reasonable in terms of reasonable fear is legally defined, not what you decide is reasonable.

I'd report somebody for kicking a dog whether it was my dog or one I was passing by, exactly as I'd report any other crime.

YourBubzYourRulzHun · 05/07/2015 16:20

Actually Kardamyli to answer your question, my dog was on the lead as I knew she didn't like this particular dog. The other persons dog ran up to me and invaded my dogs personal space so my dog went for his dog, (which according to your reasoning is fine as if anyone dares to get to close to you they deserve it) I got my dog away, his dog ran off and he kicked my dog and then repeatedly tried to kick it again.
As much you don't believe me, I wouldn't lie about what the police said. Animal abuse was exactly what they said. I only rang them for advice and it was their idea to take it further.

Kardamyli · 05/07/2015 16:21

Scarlet, how am I to know that the sniffing slobbering or other general unpleasant dog behaviour isn't the prelude to being bitten. Anyway, My point in relation to the biting was in response to Tab'S assertion that I would have no defence under the animal welfare legislation.

I would never have to resort to kicking a dog if owners would keep their dogs under control, so the solution is entirely in the hands of dog owners. Don't want people kicking out at your dog to make it go away, then keep your dog under control.

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