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Original poster

Sex ed - shaving legs in year 5

700 replies

Candycoco · 02/07/2015 23:24

Have posted in education but posting here for traffic.

Dd came home from school today having had sex ed at school for the past 2 days.

I've always been very open with her and have answered questions as they've come up, so no big revelations this week.

However, she told me today that the boys were taught how to shave by male teacher, and girls were taught how to shave their legs. This just doesn't sit right with me. I know 99% of women do shave their legs and it's something I've already talked to dd about as she asked me last year about it and I told her she has to wait til end of year 6 before she starts secondary to do it.

I just feel it's a bit presumptuous and suggests all girls should. Maybe I'm being bit uptight about it but I don't like the message it sends. Is this normal to teach this as park of sex ed?

Thanks

OP posts:
cailindana · 10/07/2015 08:47

Also Ninja if you read my posts I've said numerous times that I think that rather than teaching shaving the school's time would be better spent teaching children to be ok with their bodies and putting a stop to bullying.

NinjaLeprechaun · 10/07/2015 08:57

"I'm willing to argue about because I do see it as important but if you don't see it as important why not just say "it's a non issue" and move on?"
I'm bored? I enjoy arguing? People who get worked up about things that I don't think deserve to be worked up about amuse and annoy me in equal measure? For all you know, I could be arguing against my own position just for sport. I was under the impression that having our beliefs and assumptions challenged was good for us.

This: "I don't consider shaving to be sexual in the way you do. I will bear in mind that you think dildos should be part of sex ed when another thread crops up with a parent horrified that the word 'sex' was uttered around their PFB." is unnecessarily aggressive and the second sentence reads as a veiled threat (although a threat of what, I don't know - calling down the judgement of Other Mummies on my head? That will be a first.)
Unnecessary aggression and threats, veiled or otherwise, is bullying behaviour. That, not the fact that you ignored my earlier comment, was what prompted me to say what I did.

cailindana · 10/07/2015 08:59

How can it be a veiled threat if you don't know what I'm threatening? I'm not threatening anything by the way but I'm sorry if did feel threatened, that wasn't the intention.

Candy sorry to hear this has caused a problem for your DD. What do you think you'll do?

LassUnparalleled · 10/07/2015 09:02

I also find it odd that so many posters who see shaving as a non issue are willing to defend it so staunchly for so long. I'm willing to argue about because I do see it as important but if you don't see it as important why not just say "it's a non issue" and move on

Because you keep going on about how we are all wrong. I asked you what more you wanted from those of us who thought it was a non -issue. You said nothing, you understand my viewpoint but you don't agree. Fair enough but if anyone needs to move on it's you. The majority of posters on this thread don't agree and are not going to be persuaded by your argument.

LassUnparalleled · 10/07/2015 09:11

To be honest I'm not sure I even understand your argument given you said you shave your legs. It seems to be, as far as I can make out , you do shave but you understand you only do so because you are oppressed by societal structures in to doing so.

Basically, you think really hard about it, the rest of us don't.

cailindana · 10/07/2015 09:15

I agree Lass. You consider shaving to be a non-issue, something not worth thinking about and I don't. That's the difference.

LassUnparalleled · 10/07/2015 09:36

Yes I get that. What you fail to get is maybe I did "think" about it and came to the conclusion it's not important. Again like the poster on FWR who told me the difference between her and me is she thinks about why she has personal preferences. All just a teeny bit patronising, a bit "silly women" really.

Still at least you are posting on here unlike the posters who were talking about this thread on FWR, including one who commented she saw the thread title but couldn't bear to open it.

cailindana · 10/07/2015 09:39

No, I respect the fact that you have a different opinion to me. I have never implied anyone was silly and I'm not sure why, on discussions like this, posters tend to imagine insults.

NinjaLeprechaun · 10/07/2015 09:40

"I'm not threatening anything by the way but I'm sorry if did feel threatened, that wasn't the intention."
I thought I was good at non-apology apologies, but this one is a masterpiece. Grin You didn't even take responsibility for the intention behind the words, colour me impressed. Wink Okay, at this point I'm genuinely amused. I assume your phrasing was unconscious.

If you resent shaving your legs then don't. The world won't end. I don't think shaving is worth either thinking about or doing most of the time. I absolutely can't remember the last time somebody made a negative comment about my very hairy, frequently on display, legs. I think I was twelve.

Candy based on my 'vast' experience with 10 year olds, my guess is that something more interesting will come along soon. If you're not already, ignore any comments about hairy legs that aren't direct requests to do it - those only require a 'no', you've already explained your position. Make it a really boring issue.
I managed to put off letting my daughter dye her hair for 6 months that way when she was that age.

NinjaLeprechaun · 10/07/2015 09:45

"I'm not sure why, on discussions like this, posters tend to imagine insults."
If people keep thinking that you're acting a certain way towards them, then maybe it's time to look at your words and phrasing and see if you are giving out the wrong impression.
Isn't that the feminist line? If (generic) I think that (generic) you are being offensive then you are being offensive, and you need to modify your behaviour... or something like that.

cailindana · 10/07/2015 09:48

I see what you're saying Ninja but posters state that I've said things that I clearly haven't said - what can I do about that??

LassUnparalleled · 10/07/2015 09:52

callindana OK I accept that . I think it's the insistence that "you" (generic you) have analysed but we don't. It can come across as patronising.

I'm fairly certain,from previous posts, the poster I mentioned intended her comment as an insult (it certainly felt like one) and another poster who made veiled comments about people who underthink being of no merit also did , given that she had previously called me a childish idiot.

LassUnparalleled · 10/07/2015 09:53

Callin maybe you are now feeling the way I do when I post on FWR?

cailindana · 10/07/2015 09:57

I don't know. Honestly though Lass if I went onto a religion thread saying "Jesus didn't exist," "I don't believe in religion" I'd expect to have my arse handed to me. I don't think you should be insulted but I don't see why you think feminists are ever going to agree with you.

IceBeing · 10/07/2015 09:59

OP oh that is really disappointing to here.

So basically the net effect of this lesson has been to reinforce and emphasise the fact that girls should shave their legs, even for the girls who had already been talking with families about the issue.

That really sucks.

What a terrible terrible shame it is that our society tells girls that nothing matters more than their appearance and that it not only has to be good but so boringly uniform and lacking in diversity.

What an utter utter non-surprise it is that so many young girls have major problems with body confidence.

LassUnparalleled · 10/07/2015 10:26

I don't see why you think feminists are ever going to agree with you.

How strange- feminists don't believe in equality of opportunity? That abortion is a woman's choice? that pornography is damaging? I do and have said so frequently.

I'd have more time for what you are saying if you practiced what you preach. Do you wear a T shirt saying that you have shaved your legs but only because the patriarchal pressure is too strong to resist? Otherwise how can anyone tell you take such a principled stand?

cailindana · 10/07/2015 10:28

I'm not making a principled stand so there's no need for t-shirts.

cailindana · 10/07/2015 10:32

Yes feminists believe in those things, my point is that you don't identify as a feminist and you come on a lot of these threads just stating that you don't agree over and over (as though that's going to change someone's mind) or making comments like how I should wear a t-shirt saying I've shaved my legs but only because of patriarchal pressure, which is just an attempt to ridicule. I don't see why you feel that should be taken seriously.

IceBeing · 10/07/2015 10:38

Most feminists believe that we can't achieve equality of opportunity while society continues to broadcast continuously the message that women's primary value is in their appearance and sexual attractiveness.

Schools sanctioning that message by giving make up, hairdressing, leg shaving, or cosmetic surgery promoting lessons is travelling in a totally anti-feminist direction.

Not that it matters much what schools do....because the media and their parents (even feminist ones as I have first hand experience of) will all be promoting the same message...but it would be nice of formal education was the one place where girls could exist on equal footing with boys without all the gendered nonsense on top.

I am a professional physicist and my DH is a stay at home dad. But my DD has known since age 3 that girls can't be engineers and that it is really important that your clothes make you look pretty.

Sexism and gender stereotyping in society is SHIT. Leg shaving lessons in school are just a tiny tiny part of the shit storm...but it is still perfectly okay to have a problem with it. I have a problem with ALL of it.

Lurkedforever1 · 10/07/2015 10:40

So cailin why do you shave your legs then?

cailindana · 10/07/2015 10:40

Well said IceBeing.

cailindana · 10/07/2015 10:43

Because I am far too self conscious to go out without them shaved since my mother and aunts commented on my hairy legs as a teen. I would love not to shave them, I hate shaving them (as my skin is very sensitive and it really hurts) but I'm not at the point where I can do it yet.

cailindana · 10/07/2015 10:43

BTW my legs are very very hairy - thick dark hair.

IceBeing · 10/07/2015 10:51

I got a bit of a double take at badminton, because I was massaging my bust ankle and hence drawing attention to my hairy legs...luckily it was a bloke looking so I just told him I'd always admired his legs and was going for the same look.

Of course it helps that I then whipped him in the next match.

I wish I could be as feminist in the whole of my life as I am at badminton.

I always refuse to play in 'mixed configuration' and when people just put a game on in which there are two men and two women, I always invite the other woman to play with me.

In real life I hide my tampons up my sleeve on the way to the bathroom...because you know...bleeding is dirty innit?

LassUnparalleled · 10/07/2015 10:53

Yes feminists believe in those things, my point is that you don't identify as a feminist

I have said why I don't. Why are you so invested in that word? Does not using it invalidate my views on those fundamental issues?

Plenty of women Rabbit for example identify as a feminist but disagree with what you are saying. Many MNetters agree with those fundamental issues but don't call themselves feminists.