Sex ed - shaving legs in year 5

[Candycoco]

Have posted in education but posting here for traffic.

Dd came home from school today having had sex ed at school for the past 2 days.

I've always been very open with her and have answered questions as they've come up, so no big revelations this week.

However, she told me today that the boys were taught how to shave by male teacher, and girls were taught how to shave their legs. This just doesn't sit right with me. I know 99% of women do shave their legs and it's something I've already talked to dd about as she asked me last year about it and I told her she has to wait til end of year 6 before she starts secondary to do it.

I just feel it's a bit presumptuous and suggests all girls should. Maybe I'm being bit uptight about it but I don't like the message it sends. Is this normal to teach this as park of sex ed?

Thanks

So, why does facial hair grow on men and why do most men shave it off? Are they victims of women's sexual preferences? Or victims of razor companies? Or under pressure from other men? Or doing what their boss at work says (why would their boss want it?)? Or capable of making up their own minds about what makes them aesthetically pleasing? And do we care, one way or the other?
I'm afraid I can't help thinking of this whole upset about shaving thing as a storm in a tea cup in the big scheme of things. If I wanted something to get upset about, I wouldn't start here. It doesn't take long to fix any damage done by a teacher telling children that some women shave their legs and some men shave their faces.

ok, joining the hairy ones!
I tidy my eyebrows slightly and pluck the odd hair on my chin but otherwise am totally au naturel. Have been walking round busy town in knee length sleeveless dress and no one has fainted away in shock or even commented.
I'm in my 50s so possibly invisible and like to think I can quell inappropriate remarks with a raised eyebrow, and I get that it's not the same if you are a little girl of 10 who's not in with the in crowd. But, if a child is being bullied I think better to deal with the bullying and tell the child- you are fine as you are- (whether its weight/hair/disability/accent/the wrong trainers) not try and fix the bullying by changing the target child. Bullies will always fine something to pick on.

Why do people get offended at the idea that their preferences are influenced by society?

If you look at a photo from 5 years ago and one from now you will see people wearing different clothes and styles on average. Isn't it blindingly obvious that we all make our decisions, on everything from clothing to boob jobs, based substantially on what society tells us we like and should strive for and only in part on our own personal preference?

I mean does anyone remember when EVERYONE had a perm?

We aren't all just brain washed automata slaved to the trends in TOWIE, but we aren't completely independent free spirits either.

We are something in between, with some people being more or less independent of the tides of fashion than others.

It isn't anything to be ashamed of - after all we are social animals programmed to fit in to the herd....and fighting your own genetics is damn hard.

I really don't see the problem. Puberty is part of Sex Ed and getting hairy can be part of puberty. I think a quick mention about shaving is very relevent and a good thing. I was hairy and was embarrassed about it as a 11/12 (?) year old. Being called gorilla legs by a boy is one of the only times I ever remember being teased as a child. I would have welcomed being told that shaving was an option during Sex Ed classes.

My mum wouldn't have minded me shaving but I didn't think to ask her about it and as I had my own bathroom I didn't have razors lying around

Both my DDs are dark haired and hairy, I provided razors and cream for them to use when they wanted as they were growing up. I see no issue with it whatsoever.
One of my DS's used to shave/pluck his monobrow from quite an early age. He generally really doesn't care about his looks at all. He came to me when he was quite young and asked me to pluck it for him. I was surprised but didn't say anything and then did as he asked. I was pleased that he was happy to ask me. He is an adult now and does it himself.

Actually, armpit hair only disperses the sweat if you have no clothing over them. Clothed, it turns into a sweat trap, increasing the likelihood of BO.

I'm 100% with Worra, my DDS take after their father, and have a distinctly Mediterranean look, including thick dark hair everywhere. DD1 was horribly bullied for being hairy, and started shaving quite young - around 8yo from memory. Did I stop her? No. Did I lecture her on being proud of her body hair? No. I did what was needed to stop the relentless teasing, and taught her how to shave safely.

I'd infinitely prefer my children to grow up happy and confident with their bodies, than wage a one woman war against societies opinions on body hair. My priority is my children, not making a stand against hair shaming.

I also don't see a problem with this. Some of the girls in year 6 are very bothered by their hariness. They gave said so to ds1!! They need to be given the OPTION of dealing with it, if they want to.

Why do people get offended at the idea that their preferences are influenced by society?

Because of the inordinate obsession of certain feminists on certain preferences which may to some degree be the results of external pressure.

....but it's not 'to some degree the result of external pressure'
it's entirely the result of external pressure, and hence why feminists are interested in it. The 'rule' men=hairy is OK, women=hairy is not OK is a gendered rule, so obviously if you are interested in gender issues you will be interested in unpicking the rule. Why aren't the boys in Y6 bothered by the hairiness that is part of puberty eh??

Because I don't care.

You can pick away at it as much as you like. I look at my bare legs and they look nicer to me when they are smooth and hair free. It's of no more importance than whether I think kittens are cute and, oh I don't know, lizards aren't.

I have posted at length on the Rihanna thread about what my views are on equality, porn etc but this sort of nonsense bores me rigid.

What rubbish that men aren't interested in whether or not they are hairy. How paranoid are you? I know plenty of men who are worried that they will be teased for having hair on their back, or that their chest hair is so excessive it will stick out of the top of their shirt and they will be called a hairy ape, or that their arms are so hairy that, again, they will be laughed at. There are also plenty of men who feel discriminated against because they want to exercise the right to grow a beard. Fair enough, they will also be laughed at for not being hairy enough, unless they are a professional cyclist, but that doesn't seem like any more of a fair deal to me, that they can be laughed at both ways.
It isn't just men who prefer women to have smooth skin on their legs and find it more aesthetically pleasing - lots of women do, too. Personally, I think the shape of female legs is more pleasing than that of men's, and when my legs are smooth to touch, I prefer that to them being a bit dry and hairy. I don't, in general, find male legs as aesthetically pleasing as women's, with or without hair. Not everything in life has to be about sex and gender inequality. What's more, some men find female leg hair sexually exciting: it takes all sorts to make a world. And finally, a fair proportion of both men AND women find beards and moustaches pretty gross (from my female point of view, the thought of being kissed by a man with a beard and moustache is pretty disgusting to me, thinking of the bogeys and food that might be stuck in there...). So why the obsession with it being male inflicted pressure, or some kind of sexist conspiracy? People put pressure on each other, male and female, and groups develop fashions and preferred looks for their own gender, it isn't always about pleasing the other gender.

What's more, plenty of women put pressure on their partners to look more smart, or make more effort, or to shave more often, or scratch their balls less etc. If it's a gender issue, it's that women, regardless of men, are possibly, in general, too obsessed with the appearances of both men and women. Or maybe they aren't, maybe they are more interested in social grooming. Whatever it is, you really don't have to play if you don't want to - society sets very low standards of presentation nowadays in comparison to expectations of the past.

Surely it would have been said in light of the fact not all girls have families where these things are discussed, same as any aspect of puberty. My only complaint would be that I think hair removal cream, rather than shaving is easier at that age, especially if it's a child attempting it without adult input at home.

Isn't the point more that teenage boys do not get the 'gorilla' type comments made to them for not removing their leg hairs as soon as they appear? I have a teenage boy and a teenage girl and ds has made absolutely no move toward the razor/depilatory creams. Sure he is body conscious, who isn't as a teen, but there is a hell of a lot less pressure on him to conform to some externally set ideal. I've never caught him crying because he is too fat/thin/not dressed right and his mates (and dd's male friends) appear to make a great deal less effort than the girls with no question that they will get any grief for not being pretty/smart, having the right hair cut, being hairy/hairless etc etc

Leg hair isn't a part of puberty though is it? It doesn't "appear".

It's always there, people just get more self conscious about it as they hit puberty and get body aware and how they appear to others.

Female shaving isn't part of puberty and sex ed in the same way beard shaving is- a beard being a secondary sexual characteristic.

They might as well give the girls lessons on how to dress nicely, apply make up and nail varnish, and generally make themselves more physically attractive.

I just got 150,000 hits on 'how to shave your legs' including several videos, if you want to learn how to do something so totally mainstream there is no shortage of instruction, some specifically orientated toward teenagers/preteens.

i think encouraging girls children to look to the internet for any advice at all on puberty, sexuality and body care is a really bad idea. i mean, inpreference to a teacher mentioning it in case parents do not. There is a lot of weird and/or incorrect information out there. If the child has no reference from their parents or other adults, they won't know how to winnow those hits down sensibly. Here we are talking about how shocking this is because shaving ISN'T neccesary, but the internet is going to have a lot of information saying that shaving your pits and legs is the absolute minimum, and the goal is to be smooth and hairless except for brows and the hair on your head. No matter how many sane and sensible vids there are aimed toward teenagers, there are far more aimed at adult women. And there are surely porn vids involving hair removal in some way shape or form. There are porn vids incorporating every topic under the sun. Depending on what sort of parental settings are on the computer they use, and what sort of things other household members use the same computer to search for, those will show up.

Shaving (whether for boys or girls) is something parents should teach, not schools.

And in the girls school I used to work in, in PSE, they DID have lessons on such things - they had a 'colour me beautiful' consultant come in and teach the girls about colour - you know, autumn, winter spring etc. In another year, they had someone come in and talk about body shape and flattering clothes. At one point, they had a choice of different activities they could do in PSE and one of them was about how to put on make-up well, whilst another optional one was about personal safety for women.

All of these were light-hearted sessions. There was no suggestion that the girls had to wear particular colours, or wear make up or a particular style of clothes.....the sessions were put on partly in response to requests from the girls who had a chance to say what they would find useful. They were a recognition of the issues facing girls growing up. At the same time, there were sessions on money management, car maintenance and assertiveness.

PSE is wide ranging and sex ed is a topic which overlaps with lots of other issues which are related to growing up. The topics are meant to be informative and useful for the life we live today, not preachy and moralistic or pushing any agenda. If female or male hairiness is an issue of concern for young people today, it is right that it is covered - and that doesn't mean pushing any particular view on it, but meeting kids where they are and giving them useful information - for informed choices and practical relevance.

They do this in year 5? I assume you mean P5? That means your child is 10yrs and they are teaching the class about periods and tampons!!!
I'm in Scotland, they don't approach this untill p7 at 12/13 yrs. They don't go to secondary school to after p7.
I would be very upset at your situation, I know my daughters school they inform you of these lessons and what's involved the week before and give details. I only know this as my friends daughter is P7.

Micah - since when is leg hair not part of puberty?! The hair on my legs and head got thicker, darker and wirier when I went through puberty, along with the development of hair under my armpits and on my groin. I am not abnormal. Hormones have an effect on both male and female body hair.

Tonnes of judgemental people on here. At least the teacher appears to have stuck to the facts, rather than spouting her opinions on right and wrong like the women on this thread. Girls get hairier when they go through puberty and lots of girls at that point become interested in shaving. To avoid the subject is like ignoring an elephant in the room, and to be anything other than factual brings all sorts of opposing opinions into the frame, some based on inaccurate understanding of biology, what's more.

starbrite 12/13 is far too late to be learning about periods etc, many girls are starting periods at 9/10 yrs or sometimes younger.

Starbrite00 - isn't it a bit unfair to avoid talking about tampons and periods up to 4 years after some girls have started having them? By the age of 12 or 13, most girls will have had to find out about periods by themselves before anyone tells them about it.

Just thought, who had armpit hair at 10? None of girls i know do, my girl is 9, the girls in her class are still playing make believe and superheroes, they are still so young, not teens

Periods at 9 or 10, that is very rare not common.

Good posts Rabbit The aesthetics were what I was trying to get at with my kittens and lizards analogy.

Leg hair suddenly becoming visible was certainly something that only happened at puberty for my dd.