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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Non oaying tenants should be arrested!!

268 replies

JakieOH · 02/07/2015 23:02

Just watching a programme about landlords and tenants. I know there are bad landlords out there, however, surely it should be a criminal offence not to pay rent on a property?? It can take months and months to evict a tenant from your property and it costs a fortune too. Meanwhile the landlord has to pay the mortgage etc. it's awful, these people should be arrested for theft because that's what it is.

More a rant than a question really, I rent out my old flat and it worries me a lot! If my tenets decided to stop paying rent I would most likely default on the mortgage and loose the property. There would be very little comeback to retrieve the money Owed.

I'm lucky because I have great tenants, they get a lovely oroperty at a very very reasonable rate (just covers the mortgage and any breakdowns/upkeep etc)

OP posts:
Original poster
JakieOH · 03/07/2015 22:30

Well that post opened a can of worms! Shock

To be fair, reading these posts I realise that I was probably speaking shite. It annoyed me that the poor woman was thousands of pounds out of pocket. Her property was trashed and the tenents had disappeared. What they did was terrible and they should definitely be criminal prosecution agains them for ruining her property.

I had to leave the town I lived in and am actually renting another one. I let my fkat out as I thought I may have to return to it. I don't so will most likely sell it when the current fixed mirtgage expires.

I am a decent landlord and a decent person. I could probably get several hundred pound pm more than I charge but my tenents couldn't afford that so I dont. I have every sympathy for people that fall on hard times, it could happen to me, but I would make every effort to insure I paid my rent and if I coukdnt I would move. I certainly would hang around squating in someone else's property then trash it before I bail.

Maggiejoyblunt, seriously, have a word with yourself. You sound bitter and entitled, yuk Hmm

OP posts:
Original poster
JakieOH · 03/07/2015 22:32

Sorry about sp mistakes, posting from a phone and multitasking Confused

OP posts:
HelenaDove · 03/07/2015 22:35

Iona I think owner occupiers should be compelled to have gas safety checks. They are not actually COMPELLED to in the way that landlords and tenants are.

And how on earth would someone on NMW be able to save up anything.

Oh and as for going round to the tenants once a month for an inspection. You WOULD of course not be expecting the tenant to take time off work to accomodate this as the rent is important right.

SurlyCue · 03/07/2015 22:37

but I would make every effort to insure I paid my rent and if I coukdnt I would move.

How would you move? You have no money to pay your rent so how can you move somewhere else? You cant pay deposit and first (at least) month's rent plus moving costs, application fees etc.

cruikshank · 03/07/2015 22:45

Just thought of another one (told you I would) - how many notices to fix the landlord has had in the past six years.

Also, how many times the landlord has been repossessed. This happened to me one time - first we knew about it was the bailiffs nailing an order of possession to the door. That was a fun weekend.

I do wish that the real world was like mumsnet - full of 'lovely' landlords who charge under market rent and whose tenants kiss their feet as they walk through the door.

The reality is though that 1 in 3 private rental properties in the UK are deemed to be substandard and that we, collectively as a country, are paying out £12 billion a year in housing benefit for these substandard properties because the cost of renting has become unaffordable even for people who work full-time. This is what you get when you privatise housing. Anyone can rock up and call themselves a landlord and I actually struggle to think of a less regulated area than private sector housing. So while I feel a little bit sad about one woman on a telly programme, there is a bigger picture going on here and it is not one that treats tenants well or that works in the slightest, in terms of provision of shelter, either societally or economically.

MysticMugBug · 03/07/2015 22:50

I agree with Sunny baudelaire

needmorespace · 03/07/2015 23:01

Confused what has MaggieJoyBlunt said that was bitter and entitled? Serious question.

suzannecanthecan · 03/07/2015 23:32

what has MaggieJoyBlunt said that was bitter and entitled? Serious question

nothing

landlords like to think of themselves as fairy godmothers

they get very upset when it is pointed out that they are actually paying a key role in perpetuating a situation where increasing numbers of people are unable find a secure and affordable place to call home.

DoughDoe · 04/07/2015 00:04

I don't see the issue to be frank. I would quite like to open a restaurant, but I don't because most go bust, and it's a lot of work.

Likewise if you don't want to accept the oh so arduous responsibilities and laws of being a landlord, don't fucking become one.

Not really complicated is it? We have far too many landlords now anyway.

DoughDoe · 04/07/2015 00:11

It's like coming on here and complaining 'I am a car park attendant and we can't clamp people's cars, it's so unfair'. Most people would say 'fuck off, we don't care'.

Landlords are parasites on society, siphoning off the profit from other people's labour. It always used to be a rather grubby, seedy trade, and I am not sure that the mass participation of the chattering classes has changed that.

MaggieJoyBlunt · 04/07/2015 00:21

what has MaggieJoyBlunt said that was bitter and entitled? Serious question

Good question need Grin

MaggieJoyBlunt · 04/07/2015 00:31

Likewise if you don't want to accept the oh so arduous responsibilities and laws of being a landlord, don't fucking become one

TBF, I think it is probably moderately hard work to be a really good LL.

I don't think it's something you can squeeze around a FT job, that's for sure.

DH was convinced BTL was a good alternative to a pension at one stage. There's a lot of that about, I think. The property press, existing LLs etc can be positively evangelical about the idea. Not to mention the mortgage lenders who were so keen to sell BTL mortgages in the boom. I don't see it as very responsible.

But then I was tenant for quite a few years in my youth and DH never was, so maybe that accounts for the difference in perspective. I don't think people thinking of a house or flat as an 'investment' necessarily also grasp that it is someone's home.

MaggieJoyBlunt · 04/07/2015 00:37

landlords like to think of themselves as fairy godmothers

Yes, there was a weird bit upthread where a LL said that they were "housing a family". An odd way to describe a mutually beneficial commercial transaction, I thought.

Original poster
JakieOH · 04/07/2015 00:42

Surly, I'm not sure. I would engage with the landlord explain my situation (if I thought it would change and I would be able to oay what I owed) and hope that they would understand. If I was out of work I would speak to family or friends see if someone could put me and(if I had them my children) up.

What I woulnt do is live in a landlords property for free, trash it and then leave when I was forced. As far as I'm concerned that wouldn't be an option.

Thanks for all the posts it's been very interesting actually and I do think differently after reading them, well the more sensible ones.

Clearly doughdoe and canthecan have a few issues they need to work through ( good luck with that guys Hmm) but I'm afraid I'll have to leave this thread now. Im terribly busy, you know, doing landlord things like counting all the money ive made from poor people and thinking of interesting ways to kill kittens Grin that's just how us landlords roll!

It was actually wimpydimple that made the shitty remarks that stunk if a bitter fool not Maggiejoy, my mistake, sorry Maggie Flowers

OP posts:
MaggieJoyBlunt · 04/07/2015 01:39

my mistake, sorry Maggie

No problem. I can stop head-scratching now Smile

Surly, I'm not sure. I would engage with the landlord explain my situation (if I thought it would change and I would be able to oay what I owed) and hope that they would understand.

That's exactly what most people would do Jakie. It's what the CAB and Shelter advise too. What you couldn't do is print money.

What I woulnt do is live in a landlords property for free, trash it and then leave when I was forced.

Hold on, "trash it"?? That's a different thing entirely. Your OP wasn't about wilful vandalism.

suzannecanthecan · 04/07/2015 08:46

?If my tenets decided to stop paying rent I would most likely default on the mortgage and loose the property

These are precariously thin margins, not a very good business model, one can hardly view it as viable if one non paying customer means that you go bustHmm

When interest rates go up surely many BTL LLs are going to be up the creek without a paddle ?Shock

mimishimmi · 04/07/2015 09:01

Wow. Landlords are parasites. Really? So if we move from our flat to a house and rent out the former as we are thinking of doing, are we leeches on society? Or is it only those big, bad 'buy to let' landlords that are a scourge upon society?

suzannecanthecan · 04/07/2015 09:07

All rent seeking activity is parasitic, that is axiomatic ?

suzannecanthecan · 04/07/2015 09:17

Rent is unearned income, as a landlord you are not creating wealth?,you have taken control of a key asset (housing) and you are using it to extract money which others have earned. ?
You are feeding off of the work which other people have done?

Original poster
JakieOH · 04/07/2015 10:05

Cancan did a landlord steal your last rolo when you were a child? Or was it a landlord that told you santa wasn't real? You sound like a kid in the playground Hmm really quite tragic! And a little unhinged to be honest. Do you actually know what a parasite is? landlords provide a service exactly the same as renting or hiring anything else. Parasites are those that live off others with no benifit to the other party? Sound familiar? Like a squatter perhaps?

It's far from unearned income, infact I worked very hard to get the deposit and buy it Smile just as my tenents work hard to keep a roof over their head. I most likely wouldnt default on my mortgage thinking about it rationally, too much equity for that to happen but I'd struggle if it went on for half a bloody year. I'm not in that position just now because my tenents are decent people Grin and I am, after all, a fairy godmother (apparently)Wink

OP posts:
suzannecanthecan · 04/07/2015 10:29

like I said Jackie you have taken control of a key asset (housing) and you are using it to extract money which others have earned

and you are playing a key role in perpetuating a situation where increasing numbers of people are unable find a secure and affordable place to call home

soapboxqueen · 04/07/2015 10:40

Yes because prior to the btl boom, everybody owned their own homes. Everybody could afford a deposit. Nobody needed to move home quickly because of relocation or change in circumstances. What a eutopia it was. Hmm

needmorespace · 04/07/2015 10:42

I agree with everything that Cancan says. Don't think she/he sounds unhinged at all.

Why should the rent cover the mortgage? You took the mortgage out, you will end up with an asset that you haven't paid the mortgage on for the majority of months that it was due. Even if the rent was half the mortgage outgoing and you contributed the other half you would still be quids up in the long term in most cases.

It is unfair that the 'lucky' ones (and it is luck that you had a job wherein you could work hard and earn enough money to garner a deposit) means that you have two homes and another family can't even have the security of one.

And I say this not through envy as some posters have alluded. I could easily join the btl brigade - I have creeping towards £1 million in equity in my house (just luck - it's nothing special but in zone 2 in a popular area of London) and I used to work in housing management so know exactly the pitfalls/benefits.

But I won't because I totally disagree with the way that family homes have become assets in this country and that people have to claim benefits in a lot of cases simply to pay for a basic human right to decent housing. It has totally distorted the housing market (and I benefit from this).

There should be a mass programme of building decent social housing at affordable rents - that would take the wind out of the btl bubble. It would also devalue my property. But I don't care - it is my home not a passport to undeserved wealth.

Original poster
JakieOH · 04/07/2015 10:44

what, kind of like any other business in the world Grin because this is abusiness apparently. Do you think there should be no private landlords?

OP posts:
suzannecanthecan · 04/07/2015 10:49

I think people should have access to secure and affordable housing, we need government policies which promote that rather than do the opposite. And the rental sector should be controlled and regulated?.

(and thank you Needmorespace! )