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AIBU?

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Original poster

Non oaying tenants should be arrested!!

268 replies

JakieOH · 02/07/2015 23:02

Just watching a programme about landlords and tenants. I know there are bad landlords out there, however, surely it should be a criminal offence not to pay rent on a property?? It can take months and months to evict a tenant from your property and it costs a fortune too. Meanwhile the landlord has to pay the mortgage etc. it's awful, these people should be arrested for theft because that's what it is.

More a rant than a question really, I rent out my old flat and it worries me a lot! If my tenets decided to stop paying rent I would most likely default on the mortgage and loose the property. There would be very little comeback to retrieve the money Owed.

I'm lucky because I have great tenants, they get a lovely oroperty at a very very reasonable rate (just covers the mortgage and any breakdowns/upkeep etc)

OP posts:
Gartenzwerg · 03/07/2015 10:00

OP, do you think that you should be arrested / criminalised in the event that you default on your mortgage ?

Would you have sympathy for your lender, who would presumably lose several thousand pounds if they had to instigate proceedings to repossess your property, and we not able to recover their costs from you ?

Or would you consider that a business risk that they willingly take ?

Original poster
JakieOH · 03/07/2015 10:33

are you really comparing mortgage companies to land lords? surely not!

its completely different. My mortgage arrangement is paying a huge amount of money back over however many years. A tenent is not tied into this agreement. If they can't pay they should make other arrangements and walk away.

Saying that I would certainly try and help in whatever way I could, a reliable tenent who couldn't pay if I felt it would be resolved in the near future. That should be my choice though. I know many landlords wouldn't or indeed couldnt in which case the tenent should leave. Completely different from a mortgage.

OP posts:
19lottie82 · 03/07/2015 10:37

I rent out my old flat and it worries me a lot! If my tenets decided to stop paying rent I would most likely default on the mortgage and loose the property.

If this is the case then you're not really in a position to be renting out the property! An essential part of budgeting when renting out a flat is taking into account a rental void of 2 months out of the year.

As for it being a criminal offence. Utterly ridiculous. Do you know what a "criminal" offense actually is?

19lottie82 · 03/07/2015 10:40

OP, as you let your property out, do you have consent to let, or a BTL mortgage/ Did you go on a LL course before you rented it out, to make sure you are meeting every legal obligation as a LL?

What would you do if your tenant said they weren't going to allow viewings once they had given notice to leave, even if you had stipulated that they must, in the lease?

Did you conduct a full check in report (dual signed) and inventory, when they moved in?

Gartenzwerg · 03/07/2015 10:48

I think the comparison is valid. Your bank is a business that takes a financial risk on you, its customer. It tries to mitigate that risk through carrying out credit checks on you, to see how likely you are to pay it every month. The bank will factor in the cost of those that don't pay into their cost models.

At a landlord, you are also running a business that is taking a financial risk on your customer, the tenant. You have (or should have) done various checks on them to determine the risk that they will/won't pay you each month. You should also account for their risk of default in your business cost model.

I agree that tenants who wilfully cause damage should be penalised, but simple non-payment is a civil matter in the same way that it would be if you did not pay your mortgage.

maninawomansworld · 03/07/2015 10:49

It's not a criminal offence to not pay your rent so getting arrested is a bit harsh (it's just a breach of contract).
However, if the rent is not received on the due date then I believe the land lord should have the legal right to force entry , remove the tenants belongings and take back possession of the property immediately - none of this faffing around getting evictions done through the courts.

If you don't pay, you're out, simple!

Sunnyshores · 03/07/2015 11:24

Normal, law abiding people would be amazed at the excuses Ive had for rent not being paid. It was Christmas, I needed a holiday, my new car cost me more than I thought, I had to pay for a wedding.... all without any apology.

Im not talking loss of job, financial hardship etc, but isnt the above fraud? They made a conscious decision to spend rent money on luxuries for themselves. The rest of us budget, save or go without.

Original poster
JakieOH · 03/07/2015 11:25

But they don't maninawoman Smile that's the point, it can take months and months to gain access legally to your own property meanwhile costs remain the same.! It's ridiculous!

Lottie - I don't have a BTLM because I don't need one yet. Pressume you are aware of consent to let? When my current contract runs out and if I keep the property, then yes, I will get a BTL contract. I didn't go on a course because I don't need to. There are a lot of legal obligations as a landlord and it only takes a little work to become familiar with them, work I was happy to do myself, I dont need to go on a course. Hope that answers your questions Hmm

I never said it was a criminal offence I said it should be. I indertake all my obligations as a landlord fully and by the book. That, again, wasn't the point of my post. I was merely stating that it is wrong that tenents can remain in a property for months on end, not paying rent while the landlord forks out thousands to have them removed. IMO it is theft and should they choose to remain in the property there should be a way for the landlord to obtain entry sooner than the 7 months I have seen in some situations! obviously I am in the minority thinking like that, certainly on this site anyway! There seems to be little to deter immoral tenents from doing that, knowing they can live free of rent for months with no repercussions. If it was a criminal offence then the landlord could gain access to their property and I suspect this wouldn't be an issue as tenents would know they were breaking the law and leave, if they didn't they could be prosecuted! Makes sense to me but I have morals!!

OP posts:
BeautifulBatman · 03/07/2015 11:37

I don't think they should be arrested. But I think that it should be easier to evict them when they don't pay/ruin your property. We're currently £3k down because of non payment of rent plus rectifying the state they left our house in. We're taking them to small claims after using a tracing agency to find them as their forwarding address was a PO BOX in Florida Hmm.. We'll never get the money back, we know that. But we want to make sure it's noted somewhere that they're shitty useless tenants. We've also found out who their new landlord is so when the court case is done, the landlord will know what to expect.

OldBloodCallsToOldBlood · 03/07/2015 11:40

In your opinion it's theft. Thank fuck the law sees it differently.

SunnyBaudelaire · 03/07/2015 11:42

personally I think exploitative hobby landlords should be arrested but there you go.

19lottie82 · 03/07/2015 11:43

OP, so if a young family with kids, lose their jobs, and there is a delay in housing benefit (which there often is), then they should be arrested? Hmm

19lottie82 · 03/07/2015 11:45

And previously stated if you can't afford to factor in a void of 2 months a year, when renting out your property, then you can't afford to rent it out, full stop.

HesterShaw · 03/07/2015 11:50

Jailed???

FFS!

soapboxqueen · 03/07/2015 11:51

It costs a lot more than two months rent to evict a tenant if they are being difficult and repair the damage if they have wrecked the place.

If I walked into marks and Spencer and started smashing up walls and pissing on the carpet I'd be arrested. If I rent a space and do the same, it's all fine and dandy.

Toughasoldboots · 03/07/2015 11:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

soapboxqueen · 03/07/2015 11:54

Hmmm maybe the police should start saying that to everyone who calls because of damage inflicted to property.

It would save the tax payers if nothing else.

SunnyBaudelaire · 03/07/2015 11:54

" If I walked into marks and Spencer and started smashing up walls and pissing on the carpet I'd be arrested. If I rent a space and do the same, it's all fine and dandy.

that is a completely false analogy btw. If you rent a space, it your private home. M and S is a public space.
And obviously it is not 'fine and dandy' that is why landlords take a deposit isn't it?

needmorespace · 03/07/2015 11:58

OP you may undertake all your obligations as a LL but there are many who don't. It is those landlords that should be criminalised in my very humble opinion

Original poster
JakieOH · 03/07/2015 11:58

Lottie ive said no such thing haha! Personally if that was the situation I was in, as a landlord, then of course I would try and help in as much as possible, if the tenents/housing association etc engaged. I would like to think most decent human beings would do the same! However, if the landlord wasn't willing/able to help then they should be able, without spending thousands themselves to access their oroperty. they should not be allowed to just stay there for as long as possible, paying nothing, not engaging with the landlord, trash the place and walk away without any consequences!

It wasn't a post about arsehole shitty landlords. Some properties are grim and landlords should definitely be brought to book in those cases but tenents also have the right to leave and find a decent landlord if they aren't happy. I rent out a beautiful flat for a a very reasonable price. I know my tenents well so it's fine for as long as they decide to stay. Think I would probably sell it if I had to rent it to people I didn't know. Too many entitled peoplle in this country!

OP posts:
Toughasoldboots · 03/07/2015 11:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

soapboxqueen · 03/07/2015 11:58

It's a private home that doesn't belong to you. If you damage it, you should be held accountable. I'm not taking general wear and tear, on purpose destruction.

If you think a deposit covers that sort of damage you are naive and it is very difficult to claim from the deposit agencies.

Original poster
JakieOH · 03/07/2015 11:59

It takes longer than 2 months Lottie and potentially thousands in legal fees ontop of that. It's just wrong!

OP posts:
Toughasoldboots · 03/07/2015 11:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BeautifulBatman · 03/07/2015 12:00

Deposits are not always big enough to cover the costs though Sunny. Our tenants deposit was nowhere near the £3k we've had to spend to rectify what they didn't pay/neglected.