To think that UK bound lorry drivers should boycott Calais?

[Libitina]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33240475

The local police would soon do something to protect them then. If it was my husband (he's not a lorry driver) I would be so worried about his personal saftey. How long before someone is hurt or killed?

Can one of the hand wringers answer me this, if we let in the 3,000 people reported to be in Calais at the moment, do we let in the next few thousand, and the next?

Do you really think that when we let these people in it will be the end of the problem?

moreshabby so do you think it's OK that Germany receives nearly seven times as many asylum applicants as the UK, that Italy and France both receive more than twice as many, and even little Hungary - with a GDP ome twentieth the size of the UK's, in 2014 processed 50% more asylum applications?

The big increase in the last couple of years btw has been migrants from Syria, almost all of whom are likely to have valid claims to refugee status.

phone in now on radio London about overcrowding, 26 to a tiny house, sheds in gardens.

i think you should be able to sponsor/adopt them
that way the people who want them here can support them. problem solved

Remember we also allowed people from Eastern Europe to come here in the early 00s to work whereas other countries did not.

Listening to the programme now it is so depressing. No affordable housing, overcrowding, subletting, supposed sheds in gardens illegally let.

Also I think the people do access services, maybe they go to A&E if they are ill or borrow someone else's ID.

Mistigri yes, on the basis of land mass I do think Germany and France should take more than us, but equally I think we should be doing more to help them stay in their own countries.

On tv the other day it said that 93,000 children are homeless in this country and thousands more are living in poverty. We just dont have the money or resources to cope with thousands more people.

It is certainly a very dangerous and horrible situation.

From the migrant aspect though, I think the UK don't monitor people leaving its borders. Taking that into account, it would be unreasonable to expect the French to check the people leaving France and entering the UK. The danger to travellers is a different thing of course.

If the UK wash their hands about other countries having to deal with the migrant crisis in the Mediterranean once they reach land, I guess it is right back at you.

Allowing a large camp like that to be set up is very irresponsible though.

I think we DO need to stop these people coming in illegally but only because they are far ore likely to be exploited by coming in unofficially.

I don't support the idea of people clinging to lorries or hiding away in them. It IS a sign of their desperation though.

If and when we take people in officially they will get health care (very important given the rise in TB). They will get asylum status if fleeing war torn countries, shelter and limited benefits.

The whole question of how many folk we allow in I leave to better brains than mine.

JUSTBENORMAL ,"The men, women and children (or 'these people' as you put it) at Calais are fleeing war, poverty and oppression.

That doesn't answer why people are desperately leaving France for the UK. There is no more war, poverty or oppression in Calais than in the UK. Why aren't the French lining up too if France is that bad? The fleeing is happening from France.

Because they want to come to the UK! Of the thousands of desperate men, women and children who make it to Europe alive, some will try to settle in France, some in Germany, some in Sweden etc etc and yes, some want to get to the UK. Why shouldn't they?

Many posters on this thread are essentially saying they want these people to stay in their home countries and either die, or be resigned to having wretched lives and it absolutely sickens me.

All the wealthy countries in the world need to recognise that we are in the midst of a global humanitarian crisis and come up with a plan to fairly distribute these displaced people around the world.

Do any of the 'don't let them in' posters on this thread have any thoughts on the idea that we should accept and organise migration rather than try to resist it?

JustbeNormal

Did you even read the article? The solution the UN puts forward is simply to absorb the additional migrants. Btw, America has these low skills visas. Seasonal work visas. Short term visas to look for work. They are open to massive abuse AND don't resolve the issue of illegal migration.

Since you need it from your favorite newspaper:

www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/24/illegal-migrants-enter-uk-via-heathrow-visa-not-lorry

The guardian talks out of both sides of it's mouth. When it wants to tut tut about border control, it points out that most illegal migration is visa overstay. But now apparently the solution to border control issues is to give out more visas! The point is that if those migrants didn't get work, they would simply overstay. They are trying to get to UK soil because they know they can disappear once they get here. They wouldn't leave.

What the UN Rapporteur charmingly calls "cleaning up our labor market" sounds benign. But people are heading for the UK because they are trying to avoid the "cleaned up labor market" of France. It's residence registration and the like they are avoiding. If you want to have an ID card that you have to show daily, then let's go ahead.

Honestly, you just sound ridiculous. If only Europe could have had these conversations honestly 10 years ago instead of listening to people like you, none of this would be happening.

Of course it's unacceptable. Those lorries are being vandalised and drivers threatened and yet the French police do absolutely nothing except watch.Will it take serious injury or death to make them act. That is one of the many things that annoys me about European 'union'. Only united when it suits them. Which is why I'll be voting no in the referendum.

we won't be particularly wealthy if we carry on like this and alot of people in the UK are hard up.

shame Tony Blair was voted in, things didn't get better imo

Basically the solution is unfortunately is strict controlled labor markets. That is the only way to deter the pull factor. Residence and ID cards for everything. Home preferences and strict language requirements.

That's how other EU countries get away with having large numbers of migrants but not actually employing any of them! The UK takes way less but treats them way better. We integrate them. We treat them like family. We employ them fairly. Their foods become the local dish! They want to come here because we're better. Full stop.

Other European countries are socialist, not liberal or progressive. They are fiercely protectionist (look at all the Uber protests). Do you think that they are allowing immigrants to work? No, it's all unionized/restricted labor. They are just smart enough to hide it behind union rules, language rules, residence rules. Only the UK is actually an open labor market. That's why people want to come here. Saying each country should take a fair share will change NOTHING. They will still come to the UK unless the UK becomes more like Europe. And the strength of the UK economy is that it isn't. Do you want French youth unemployment rates and their strikes?

ApplePaltrow, you asked for a solution and I posted a link to an article suggesting a one. I can't see how that makes me 'sound ridiculous'.

People are going to keep trying to get here, that's pretty indisputable. I just think migration should be organised and 'official' in some capacity. If that makes me ridiculous, so be it.

Incidentally, The Guardian's not my favourite newspaper. I don't really have a favourite, I try to read a broad spectrum, I find it helps me to understand things better. But thanks.

See look, I do read other stuff :
static.guim.co.uk/ni/1434356535972/The-Global-Refugee-Crisis-a.pdf

Anyone with an interest or opinion should have a read.

I feel sorry for the lorry driver, not the criminals who break into their lorries and vandalise them.
One suggestion, was as these people have had ££££ to pay to traffickers, how about selling visas, 5k a pop, at western Embassies , in their own countries allowing them to visit for say 3 months, then they can fly here, and make their claim. So money goes to the gvts, not to traffickers.If it accepted, great, they stay, If not, they are deported back to where they came from - and this will then be verifiable as they will have been fingerprinted etc so easier to keep track off.
Even better if they are required to get a volunteer Guardian reading sponsor in this country via say a charity twinning up 'asylum seekers' and do-gooders sympathisers who will pay up to house them in the time and pay up if they abscond.

Just Be Normal

No you sound ridiculous because you are engaging in this argument like a child. Theoretically, any time you advocate for any immigration restriction - whatsoever - you are "essentially saying they want these people to stay in their home countries and either die, or be resigned to having wretched lives".

It is the nature of public policy to require some tradeoff, even if we want things to be very black and white. Using overly emotive language and attempting to chastise others and police language instead of just engaging honestly on a very complex issue makes you sound ridiculous.

If you actually read the links you posted (or anything at all), you'd maybe be able to speak on this like an informed adult.

The scary thing is that people like you are actually doing damage to the cause you so celebrate. You stifle open discussion and then of course people entrench in extremes.

That doesn't answer why people are desperately leaving France for the UK. There is no more war, poverty or oppression in Calais than in the UK. Why aren't the French lining up too if France is that bad? The fleeing is happening from France.
Precisely! (Although TBF, educated French people are using FOM to settle in London in large numbers because of the bonkers French socialist gvt policies )

Based on the number of asylum seekers quoted upthread, France take 0.11 per km sq and we take 0.21. I agree that the number that determines our "fair share" should be based on land mass rather than numbers of migrants.

Just been through. The French are really taking it seriously. Putting huge fences along the motorway. Massive police presence. Saw a camp from the road, conditions there looked okay, clean and not tatty. Other than that haven't seen a soul trying to sneak on. Certainly not overrunning the place. Everything is calm and under control.

My parents said on Thursday about the huge fence with barbed wire at the top and all the police. I got the impression that there were a few more people around than what you saw, but then again I can't really compare as I wasn't there either time.

I don't dispute what you're saying Harleen, but there was literally nobody today. Security was visibly being improved. We could see the camp from the motorway. There were young men playing football. There were new buildings which looked similar to welfare cabins on a building site. So not the Hilton, but showers, water, cooking facilities probably.

All I'm saying is that the situation has improved.

No we should not let them in. If they have destroyed their papers etc how di we know anything about them? Murderers,pedos, extremists and all types of criminals could be fleeing justice from their home countries. Also the risks of diseases like ebola etc. I'm sure there are genuine people escaping for genuine reasons but that's why it should be regulated so background and health checks can be done xx