to be utterly disgusted at people's comments re. welfare cuts

[HappyGoLuckyGirl]

Yes, I'm aware that our welfare system needs reforming. I do not profess to know how this should be done.

I've just read a few articles on the proposed cuts that primarily focused on reducing tax credits. The vitrol is appalling. I can't believe this is the country I live in.

I am a single mother working 40 hours a week also mid way through a 5 year part time degree. I earn slightly over minimum wage. Things are tight enough as it is, with the tax credits I get (80% of which goes on my weekly childcare bill) and now they are planning to reduce them.

I am trying to better myself so I don't always have to rely on benefits to get me through the month and yet I'm being punished! Why are working people being targeted? How is that fair in the slightest? If I wasn't so furious I would cry.

And as for people saying that employers should raise workers wages, I can say with 100% surety that if I approached my employer and asked for a living wage (increase of £8k+) I would be flat out refused and or fired. And I work in a skilled job! What hope do people who work for a large multi-national company have?

I am very this morning.

Lotus, I disagree with your analysis. I think the tory cuts will be disastrous for all but the rich and corrupt and tax avoiders. Voting tory IMO was done out of fear of immigrants, fear that someone else might conceivably compete for the same jobs, out of stupidity, indifference or pettiness. It's not a strivers vs skivers or WOHM vs SAHM or whatever else you imagine. We're not all in this together unless you talk of an immense steaming turd. IMO.

Newsflash. Many claiming tc arecalreafy in fill time work lotus

Full time work

Lotus but you're suggesting people work weekends instead of spending time with their children.

Also do you not see the stupidity in making someone work full time and spend all their wages on childcare rather than work part time and look after their kids themselves? What is the point?

People could work all day and weekend and go home and see their kids once a year. Let's call it Mothering Sunday. Have I landed in a different century?

Oh no, not you again. Do fuck off, you don't live in the real world with the majority of other people Lotus

Child poverty, food banks. I know I have landed in a different century.

Please watch. Do not let the disgusting myth of 'Benefit Britain' cloud your judgement; this rumour is being perpetuated by the tories so they can remove every last shred of dignity from those who are low paid/ disabled/ not a tory.

Austerity KILLS.

The Tories care more than the left. We are making changes to make the UK a better place. you cannot continue with a welfare state, out of work benefits and disability benefits if the nation is not paying its bills.
Nonsense. Of course you can, you make cuts elsewhere, eg. trident.

That is where we were heading when Labour spent all the money and the coffers were bear (sic)
That was nothing to do with Labour and everything to do with bankers. It was a world wide recession and it is a Tory myth that it was to do with the Labour party. A quick bit of googling will show you that we have more recessions and deeper recessions under Tory governments.

and the disability issue is a side issue in this.
Apart from the fact that this is extraordinarily rude and dismissive, which bit of disabled people are dying because of government cuts to services and benefits did you not comprehend?

Dawn did you not know that disability can be cured by working harder?

I know treacle we're just a feckless bunch of layabouts, here!

Dawndonnaagain
Not to mention the fact the tories were in full agreement with labour spending plans prior to the financial crash. Amazing how they have been able to make this narrative of 'reckless labour spending' and 'we must balance the books' become the accepted story. I guess it proves if you tell a big enough lie often enough people will start to believe it. Meanwhile the mega rich get off scot-free as always.

When it comes to the treatment who can't work the social model of disability has a lot to answer for as well. The idea is that everyone can work if only society/workplace adapts to enable them and as we now have laws to make sure this is the case anyone who isn't working is making a 'choice' to be a scrounger. But of course there are a large number of people with chronic illness for whom this model just doesn't fit; it is the fact of being chronically unwell that prevents work and no amount of wheelchair ramps or changes to the benefit system will change that.

Why is it that most of the people I know that support the conservative plans are relatively well off and insulated from the actions being taken.

Lots of people I know voted tory because they work long hours for frozen pay (nurses, midwives....) and had the same opinion as Lotus re. having to work their balls off and not see their kids whilst others don't.

I think they have been totally brainwashed by the current politics - tories and labour both guilty of this - that makes people focus on the people at the bottom (disabled, single mothers, people who have just lost their job) as scroungers and not the people at the top, running the system, with their massive tax evasions and big boys club attitudes and corruption. The individuals in the banks never got their financial penalties, they got bailed out and continue to pay each other massive bonuses from our money. The politicians who put in false expenses claims and run the government like some sort of boys club at a public school with all the 'ya ya' shouting they do in parliament. I mean, who runs a business like that?!! And the companies and top 5 % earners who avoid tax any way they can, and are allowed to to 'encourage business', where billions of our money goes.

Focusing on the poorer people in society is an easy way of getting your anger out about the fact you work too long hours and get shit pay. Totally looking in the wrong direction.

Focusing on the poorer people in society is an easy way of getting your anger out about the fact you work too long hours and get shit pay. Totally looking in the wrong direction.

Well said

A shame these cuts won't be affecting people like you, Lotus.

Please let's do something practical to bring about change instead of just writing about it. If we all got together we could bring about real change!

thecunk As much as these cuts depress me what actually depresses me more that we just seem to be allowing to happen instead of standing and saying NO enoughs enough!

And sorry, Lotus, I don't believe you worked 60 hours a week for 30 years at all. That's just not sustainable, you'd burn out and become ill.

I feel like I am missing facts in this debate. And, stupid me, I don't know where to find them. I'd like to know:

1. What percentage of people getting tax credits work less than full time?
2. What percentage of people getting tax credits have a disabled person in their household? (If we are worried about families with disabled members, shouldn't we be addressing that directly through disability benefits?)

Some typos there as I'm in a rush. You're right basically!

The cuts will affect me and other full time hard working mothers - our taxes will go down or be the same and we will not to the same extent be subsidising those kept in part time work.

However I agree with the point above that some people in full time work receive tax credits - see my links above to the Government's charts and tables.

Also many tax evaders are on benefits and make cash in hand. Don't assume all criminal tax evasion is done by the rich - never in British history has a bigger tax burden fallen on the highest earners as now - in fact so high has that burden become that the British people voted in the election to reduce it.

I am more than happy with facts rather than being told to disappear. Luckily we still have freedom for the left and right politely to express their views in the UK, something not all countries allow. I will try to find out some tax credit figures and who claims most of it.
I certainly accept we have a big problem of people in full time work even both husband and wife both full time on £13k a year each = £26k a year before tax whose low wages are in a sense supported by tax credits.

Here is a start... although I'm late with a good few bits of work so I'd better get back to that in a minute. You will not believe the amount of foreign aid we pay to Rwanda by the way I discovered in today's Times. We certainly need to cut back including in countries with a lot of well off people like Nigeria and India and China. Some of those countries should be paying the UK aid not vice versa.

ITV

"What are tax credits? Introduced by Tony Blair's government, tax credits are designed to help low-paid workers with their tax burden. There are two different types: the child tax credit and the working tax credit.

What is the child tax credit? Up to a certain level of income, the government will pay families some cash for each child they have up to the age of 16, or up to 20 if they are in education.

What is the working tax credit? People over 25 earning less than £13,100, or couples earning less than £18,000 can claim a working tax credit, provided they work at least 30 hours a week.

The exact amount depends on circumstances, but it can be several thousand pounds. People under 25 with children or a disability can also claim this credit.

£29bn
Total annual tax credit bill

Why might tax credits be on the chopping block? Chancellor George Osborne has ring-fenced any cuts to pensions and universal pensioners' benefits, which are worth £93 billion a year, or about 45% of the total spend of £205 billion.

Meanwhile, experts say cuts outlined in the Conservative manifesto, like freezing working-age benefits and reducing household caps to £23,000 a year, will only save £1.5 billion.

£26bn
Total annual housing benefit bill

Therefore, the other £10.5 billion cuts must be found in the rest of the welfare bill. Tax credits, worth £30 billion a year, are the biggest single benefit left.

The government says the welfare bill is considerably stretched as it is, and parts like jobseekers' allowance and child benefit would have to take far sharper cuts, proportionally.

£4.5bn
Total Jobseekers' Allowance bill

Lotus, let me ask you a hypothetical question

You keep going on about how you're a full time working mother and you don't want to subsidise part timers. So let me ask you something. If a system existed that allowed YOU to work less hours and have more time with your children, would you support it? If this system existed for EVERYONE?

I'm trying to work out whether your motive is jealousy/resentment (I had to do it so everyone else should)or if you genuinely believe there is something wrong with working part time when you have kids.

Personally I'd be happy to pay more tax if that meant there was a shorter working week and better services for all, because you know, I'm not a dickhead.

Also you work from home which isn't exactly the same thing as working full time in a hard physical job is it.

Thank god you've found Rwanda we can focus our hate and disdain on. Let's unite, we've found someone else to bash.