Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

to be utterly disgusted at people's comments re. welfare cuts

563 replies

HappyGoLuckyGirl · 22/06/2015 10:31

Yes, I'm aware that our welfare system needs reforming. I do not profess to know how this should be done.

I've just read a few articles on the proposed cuts that primarily focused on reducing tax credits. The vitrol is appalling. I can't believe this is the country I live in.

I am a single mother working 40 hours a week also mid way through a 5 year part time degree. I earn slightly over minimum wage. Things are tight enough as it is, with the tax credits I get (80% of which goes on my weekly childcare bill) and now they are planning to reduce them.

I am trying to better myself so I don't always have to rely on benefits to get me through the month and yet I'm being punished! Why are working people being targeted? How is that fair in the slightest? If I wasn't so furious I would cry.

And as for people saying that employers should raise workers wages, I can say with 100% surety that if I approached my employer and asked for a living wage (increase of £8k+) I would be flat out refused and or fired. And I work in a skilled job! What hope do people who work for a large multi-national company have?

I am very Sad this morning.

OP posts:
LotusLight · 23/06/2015 13:55

(5 not 10... wishful thinking on my part....)

Dawndonnaagain · 23/06/2015 13:56

I would be a bit careful of what you accept and repeat, and as I said, diversify sources a bit.
I'd stop being so bloody rude, but we're obviously different people.

Dawndonnaagain · 23/06/2015 13:58

And with regard to people with disabilities and their carers, Lotus?

ihategeorgeosborne · 23/06/2015 14:02

We have lost 2.5k in child benefit, so we have been hit by austerity. I know everyone will start bleating about being rich on 50k, but I defy anyone not to miss 2.5k with 3 kids. The people who haven't been affected at all are dual income households, where each partner earns just under the HRT threshold of 40k. They have a joint income of 80k and neither pays HRT. They keep CB and will now have free child care too. They also earn more now due to the increase of the personal tax allowance. My point was to say that as a single income HRT paying family with 3 kids, we have been hit by austerity.

WhattodowithMum · 23/06/2015 14:02

Lotus I take your point on some of this. I do think the productivity issue in Britain is not down to the "workers" but down to poor management and a lack of capital investment.

That said, I agree that system which discourages work beyond 16 hours a week is perverse.

treaclesoda · 23/06/2015 14:06

Lotus Nice touch comparing people in Ireland to desperate immigrants fleeing from Africa. But I still don't understand how the unemployed person is meant to pay for their flight to London in the first place to get to sleep on someone's floor? Or are we supposed to stow away on the ferry to Liverpool in the hope of not freezing to death on the way over? You know, just like those immigrants do. Also, whose floor do you sleep on in London when you don't know anyone there?

I'm not moaning and looking for problems btw, I've already said upthread that we got ourselves back on our feet. We could relocate within weeks if we wanted to. But I'm only asking these questions because they are such basic practicalities that you seem to be deliberately overlooking.

Dawndonnaagain · 23/06/2015 14:07

The Tories show their caring side

treaclesoda · 23/06/2015 14:12

Actually, I should say that in 2010 I actually thought the coalition government was going to be a good thing. I didn't vote Tory (they didn't field a candidate in my consituency anyway) but I had lived almost my entire adult life under a labour government and I thought that things really did need to change.

But I was oh so wrong. When I fell for their talk five or six years ago about change, I didn't realise that they meant demonising the sick, vulnerable and disabled, and the low paid. Even one person in a rich country like this ending up distressed, suicidal, ill, starving or just miserable due to poorly implemented reforms is one person too many for me.

charlestonchaplin · 23/06/2015 14:12

Correction - Not uncommon

Look, treaclesoda, I think there are major issues with the economy and the welfare system that the government need to sort out. My problem with the Conservatives is that they give themselves too much credit for their success. I know people who succeed work hard, some incredibly so, but many of these people have had a good start with educated, supportive parents not run ragged by living a hand-to-mouth existence. I wonder how many people from solid middle class backgrounds could have overcome their circumstances to achieve similar success had they started off with uneducated, unaware parents in drug-riddled sink estates?

Having said all that, and coming originally from a developing country with no welfare state to speak of, I do find this notion of the government as a kind of benevolent father (financially speaking), very odd. The disabled, the mentally ill, people who've lost their jobs, people who genuinely can't find jobs, people who are temporarily unwell, yes I understand government financial support there. But an economy where the government has to top up many people's wages on a long-term basis just seems odd. This is where the government needs to focus their efforts, whilst gradually weaning people off benefits.

My ideas are simplistic because I am no economist but when companies are paying a 'living wage', then it may be appropriate to top up the wages of those who are still earning very low amounts. But I would require people to work hours that more closely resemble the hours worked by those not in receipt of benefits. I do think that tax credits encourage some (too many I suspect) to work the minimum hours and not seek to move on from them (don't blame them really).

In Africa people hustle. They work so hard and are so entrepreneurial because they need to to survive. If you lose your job you can only rely on your extended family at best, who may be struggling themselves. It's clearly not a great system but I do think the situation in the UK has gone so far the other way, people don't seem to have that driving motivation. The government is expected to feed the children and clothe the children and house the family. And there are those who are perplexed when their children grow up and the child-related benefits stop.

I'm sure there are many 'special cases', I'm not suggesting I have all the solutions and I wouldn't start with cutting benefits. I'd start with this low wages issue and tackling benefits culture, because I do believe there is a 'Government will provide culture' that needs to be tackled. And then I think welfare needs to be looked at. I see the role of government as looking at the big picture, sorting the background economy etc, not really getting into the nitty-gritty of people's everyday lives.

LotusLight · 23/06/2015 14:17

There are parallels. My ancestors left Ireland because they were starving - the potato crop failed and in the NE there were loads of jobs in the mines. So it is very similar to most of the economic migrants from Syria and Africa who want to eat and a better life and will do whatever it takes to live.

As for how people in 2015 who have nothing other than benefits income can get together a single fare to get a boat from Ireland or more commonly move from say Sunderland to Luton I agree it is very hard if you have no savings at all, pay day loans, credit card debt and the state pays your housing benefit. The whole benefits system is designed to keep people out of work. If I offered someone on here who can type at a pc 2 hours work today which of course I could they couldn't take it on the whole because that 2 hours of income might mean they had to come off benefits, lose their housing benefit and then take 2 months to get back on to the system during which they wouldn't eat (unless they stupidly choose to commit a crime and take cash in hand - a good few of the people now in work were in work before but also took benefits until clamp downs).

Yes all the cousins in this family who all support their children on one wage have all lost their child benefit - single mothers including me.

Dawndonnaagain · 23/06/2015 14:24

The whole benefits system is designed to keep people out of work.
And those with disabilities and their carers?

OnlyLovers · 23/06/2015 14:26

I agree it is very hard if you have no savings at all, pay day loans, credit card debt and the state pays your housing benefit.

So how do you propose people in this situation do it, then, Lotus?

sharonthewaspandthewineywall · 23/06/2015 14:33

They should clearly just die as they are a blight on society and no doubt got themselves into that situation due to fecklessness hey lotus?

BettyCatKitten · 23/06/2015 14:33

The condescension of some of the posters on this thread is staggering!

GiddyOnZackHunt · 23/06/2015 14:40

The assumptions too Betty . Anyone advocating not bashing the less fortunate must be a benefits recipient apparently. It couldn't be decency fuelling them surely Grin

OldFarticus · 23/06/2015 14:40

Some of the comments on this thread remind me of that documentary in Merthyr Tydfil (sp?) made by the BBC a couple of years ago. A journalist showed a jobseeker the jobs page of a Cardiff newspaper and said "Why don't you apply for jobs in Cardiff?" Jobseeker just looked perplexed, shook his head and said "I wouldn't know how to get there..." (I think it was 40 minutes on the train).
For whoever was asking...interviews can be done by Skype and I have been reimbursed for the costs of every interview I have attended (from applying for bar work back in studying days to my recent interviews in Asia). When I interview candidates I make a point of offering in case they are too shy to ask.
People do need to be weaned off welfare and (imo) taxed less. If nothing else, the system should be simplified so that no tax is paid by anyone earning below (say) 40 hours a week at minimum wage.

HelenaDove · 23/06/2015 14:43

Thing is Old Fart they will simply be classed as "scroungers" too....re your last sentence.

OldFarticus · 23/06/2015 14:49

I don't think anyone working 40 hours a week is a "scrounger" but I see your point Helena. It just seems to me that there must be a better way to organize benefit payments. Tax credits, in particular, makes it seem that the lunatics have taken over the asylum....tax being taken and then selectively repaid seems like the least efficient of all worlds (especially judging from the threads on here when it all goes wrong).

Shouldof · 23/06/2015 14:51

A major problem here seems to be that a number of people don't understand the concept of having no money. As in actually no money. Every suggestion given for relocating etc involves an outlay and if the family has no money they can't pay that outlay. Ffs week in week out there are threads from people desperate can't afford nappies, bare cupboards or a small bill tipping them towards pay day loans. A month of train fares before they get their first pay check is beyond manageable in these circumstances. You have to be very sheltered indeed no to be able to grasp this.

conniedescending · 23/06/2015 14:55

If people really wanted to locate for better prospects they'd find away. No is saying it's easy! People need to show a bit more initiative to solve the problem.

Without tc we may find people have Nordic a push driving them

LashesandLipstick · 23/06/2015 14:57

Yes people should leave their entire families and support networks for a minimum wage job that's barely enough to survive on.

Bloody hell you people depress me.

HelenaDove · 23/06/2015 14:57

Soooooooo Africa didnt get brought into it till page 14.

Well at least thats an improvement on previous threads. Hmm

Shouldof · 23/06/2015 14:58

And Connie proves my point completely with another post about this secret way people can relocate for free where wanting it is enough to gain the secret knowledge...

HelenaDove · 23/06/2015 14:59

Yeah Lashes And then get moaned at for not being around to care for their elderly relatives because of having moved away.

If you are lower down the socio economic scale the goalposts are being moved ALL the time.

Dawndonnaagain · 23/06/2015 14:59

If people really wanted to locate for better prospects they'd find away (sic)
How?