to be utterly disgusted at people's comments re. welfare cuts

[HappyGoLuckyGirl]

Yes, I'm aware that our welfare system needs reforming. I do not profess to know how this should be done.

I've just read a few articles on the proposed cuts that primarily focused on reducing tax credits. The vitrol is appalling. I can't believe this is the country I live in.

I am a single mother working 40 hours a week also mid way through a 5 year part time degree. I earn slightly over minimum wage. Things are tight enough as it is, with the tax credits I get (80% of which goes on my weekly childcare bill) and now they are planning to reduce them.

I am trying to better myself so I don't always have to rely on benefits to get me through the month and yet I'm being punished! Why are working people being targeted? How is that fair in the slightest? If I wasn't so furious I would cry.

And as for people saying that employers should raise workers wages, I can say with 100% surety that if I approached my employer and asked for a living wage (increase of £8k+) I would be flat out refused and or fired. And I work in a skilled job! What hope do people who work for a large multi-national company have?

I am very this morning.

Happygolucky - surely the question should be how do u propose to support yourself better ?

I've been there and hated being so reliant on tc and after huge fuck up decided it was hugely bad idea for the family to be so enslaved to this money. Seems we were right?

Lotus you very neatly sidestepped the question I asked earlier about how the poorest in society are supposed to magic up thousands of pounds to relocate, so I'm presuming you don't actually have an answer? You just said that you're sure someone in N Ireland didn't need your suggestions, but I actually asked for your suggestions.

I don't need to relocate now (although I would love to, but I have reasons why I can't, but that is a different issue) We got back on our feet in the end. But it's only now that we are back on our feet and don't need to relocate that we could actually afford to do so.

And to answer a few of the points you made. Yes, I am well aware that people have always migrated elsewhere, looking for work, and that the Irish have a particularly visible history of it. The thing is that unlike 120 years ago, you can't turn up at the docks and queue up looking for work in return for your passage across the sea . Also it was often the case that entire families would club together to pay the costs for one (young, single) person to re-locate in order to give them a shot at a better life. That is very unlike the situation where a couple or a family with young children are wanting to move. And yes, I know that people move all the time, but we're not talking about the international high flyers here, who are moved around the globe by their company, with relocation costs paid for, and schools sorted out for their children. What you're talking about is demanding that low paid or unemployed people to somehow magic up money in order to move hundreds of miles away where they will have a better chance of finding another poorly paid job.

And finally, with regard to job hunting, where I live you can't just knock out a few hundred CVs and send them off to every employer in the area and expect to get an interview as a result, because the fair employment legislation requires that jobs are advertised publicly, and that applicants from all backgrounds are given equal consideration. Even a tiny corner shop looking for someone for 8 hours a week will advertise in the jobs pages of the newspaper before appointing someone.

No doubt that will be thrown back at me as 'making excuses' but it is simply how it works.

And on a similar note, surely no one lets a random person who posts a note through their door offering babysitting services actually babysit?

www.theguardian.com/business/2015/apr/26/recession-rich-britains-wealthiest-double-net-worth-since-crisis

but the problem is welfare?

We claimed what we were entitled to ...that's not milking the system. The system is fucked to allow us todo that .

And we were in debt prior to tc ....my husband was a firefighter and unable to return to work due to ptsd. My job was made redundant at about the saMe time. Tc seemed a blessing but then with over payment catastrophe were a curse.

We've had more pitfalls along the way but both retrained and have created a cushion.

If using the system appropriately is milking it then you've surely proven my point ?

MrsDV

There are different kinds of poverty. I doubt if most people struggling financially would swap with Lotus and her poverty of empathy, humanity and self awareness.

MrsDeVere clearly what you should do is do without sleep. Ever. You should be working through the night presumably.

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Thanks all.

I understood what DC was getting at...but I don't see how taking away the in work benefits without raising the minimum wage will help. At this point, it looks like he is wielding the "stick" but not the "carrot."

I think simplifying all these different taxes and benefits is a good idea. I appreciate that it complicates people's lives in the short term and is unpleasant, though. I do hope they see it through, so that we "get to other side" where you are either paying taxes, or receiving a universal credit. The worst of all possible worlds would be a situation where the waters are roiled and then they run out of energy, give up, and leave everything in a mess.

I was listening to the radio and was surprised to learn that 16 hours work a week is enough to trigger tax credits. That's just 2 full days a week! Of course, some people will have very good reasons for this, but the option is open to everyone to do this whether they have children to care for, health issues, are pursuing further education etc. or not.

He was unable to return to do the job he did previously due to a horrific rta he attended and so he retrained as a mental health nurse. I didn't say he stopped working.

You clearly have lots of passion and could go far if channelled in the right direction. Nmw jobs are a strat but people need to look for opportunities after this. Care worker is often cited as a dead end job but there are managers and supervisors up and down the country that started off in this way. Manager of a large home could earn 30-35k....this is not up be sniffed at.

treaclesoda, there are still many people migrating, including to the UK, initially without their children. They live simple lives in a shared house until their economic situation improves to the extent that their children can join them. I think this is not common with Eastern European, African and Filipino migrants amongst others. Of course there will still be costs and it is still a gamble, but this way is much less disruptive and expensive.

charleston that is very true, but surely as a society that isn't actually something we should be aspiring to? Surely that isn't a good thing?

conniedescending that last post sounded really patronising to me.

She makes no effort to hide who she is, quite the opposite, I believe she revels in the infamy.

No we didn't Mrs dv....we started to take additional work despite tc implications because we recognised the long term benefit.

Before this happened I turned down a part time job because the loss of tc was not made up for by the salary/ childcare costs. I agree that was a poor decision at the time but one we made based on the tc system. This is one of the many reasons why God system is broken. And as we got back on our feet we were amazed at the amount of money still entitled to. There will be many many families claiming tc that don't really need the money....not many will admit this though!

The fundamental point is, only the disabled, unemployed and working-but-on-the-breadline, have even suffered at all due to 'austerity'. If we lose our tax credit, I don't know how I can pay the rent. So taking even £20 a week from me, would put me in a hedge bottom (and my kids, including the disabled one). OK. Fair enough. People like us - ordinary people - will bear the entire burden of austerity, if the wealthy and wealthier have an equal, %-wiser share of austerity. What would make you homeless? OK. Government should take that from you, to make you also live in the hedge bottom and feed your kids from food banks. Then it is fair.

Until the same % of entire income, that has been robbed from the disabled and poor, is also robbed from ever fecker else - no-one but the poorest are even doing 'austerity'. I don't see Call-Me-Dave downsizing his house. I don't see a banker I know, living in the rough part of town or suddenly not being able to afford the golf club/his cars/his hobbies. So why should only the poorest already most disadvantaged people in society pay the entire bill for everyone else?

To me, that is the most basic point and the one that shouldn't get lost.

Well I'm not patronising but no doubt it'll be interpreted in that way so I'm not bothered.

I think it's important to look for a solution rather than continue to moan about it. If there's cuts coming then those at risk may want to take some proactive action rather than wait for the shitstorm.

So many saying 'we'll be fucked' but not many trying to think of an alternative

The problem joffrey is that the conservatives cannot piss off the people who voted for them. So there will be no revisiting of that ridiculous across the board winter fuel allowance for example because older people are the ones who vote for them.

It's not just about people on benefits its also about why exactly should someone with an income of 40k pay tax to provide a winter fuel allowance for my pils who go to Barbados for the winter? It should be for those in need, its bloody ridiculous. Just like its ridiculous that I get child benefit when we have an annual income of 85k.

our household income is less than 38k I did that online gov thing and we dont get anything so dont know where this comes from? Is this combined earnings or highest individual?

I used the word ridiculous rather a lot in that post

its combined earnings. If you have an income of 38k you qualify for child benefit.

I understand that people have very strong view about these issues and if you are facing losing £1400 a year when your family income including benefits is £13k or even £20k that can be very worrying, finding that extra £25 a week might feel like impossible. I also appreciate the minority Labour supporters were gutted when this nation chose the Tories for the next 10 yars. I hope we Conservatives have treated the rather sore losers with compassion and indeed Cameron's first speech on election night was One Nation - that we are now all working together for the good of the country.

The fact the left seem to think they have a monopoly on care and that chucking cash at the less fortunate in some sense helps them is wrong.

There are a lot of different issues and questions I am being asked. As I am the fount of all knowledge (laughing as I type) I am happy to attempt to answer some but I try to avoid commenting on most personal situations of others as threads can get too personal. On the transport for Ireland point as we can see with those fleeing Africa the putting your oldest son on a boat in the hope he will make it abroad (similar to the NI person saying in the past families paid for one member of the family) is obviously one solution. I know countless people in London where one will camp on a floor all week whilst working and then get the cheapest over night bus back to the family elsewhere in the week. This is the way better lives are made. We seek our jam tomorrow by tolerating privations today . Or we moan say change is impossbile and remain in difficult circumstances. There are moaners and doers and I can tell you which is the happier camp in which to be.

We have a real productivity issue in the UK and short working hours and lots of people embedded in a system where if you work very short hours you are no worse off than someone up at 5am to catch those 2 buses to work the 10 hour shift. IDS is valiantly trying to change that. I blame no one who claims what a system offers them. It is systems not people which need to be changed.

The other issue as people have pointed out is that some areas of the country have very few jobs. If none of your neighbours has any money they are not going to be able to pay you to come to their house and babysit their children.