To think men have no right to stand outside abortion clinics and do this.

[QuestioningStuff]

Posted before about my pregnancy. I am having a termination today. This is not a decision I've made lightly.

I've arrived at the clinic and there is a middle aged man and his young teen son standing outside with camp chairs and flasks. Putting up awful pictures and signs. Trying to hand out leaflets.

I think women who do this are also scum but how on earth could a man think he has any right to do this? Turn up at a place where women are at their most scared and vulnerable and try to bully them?

It's really really upset me. I hate them so much right now.

I want to go and tell them exactly what I think of them but don't think that would be helpful at this time.

We already prevent protests from occurring in certain places - such as private homes - because we accept that sometimes the right to protest is deemed less important than other rights. So extending this to certain medical facilities is pretty reasonable. If pro-lifers want to protest, they should do it where it actually might make a difference to the law, and not by making a potentially difficult time even more difficult.

Additionally, there are already laws in place concerning harassment which includes measures to prevent distress. Seeing as a pro-lifer sitting outside an abortion clinic will inevitably cause distress to someone

It's ridiculous equating private property to the street outside a business or medical facility.

And as for "inevitably cause distress", then that rules out every protest. Some people get anxious when they see crowds, so you couldn't have marches or anything. A group of thousands marching to stop cuts in welfare is going to distress someone, for sure.

Countries that curtail peaceful protest almost always end up curtailing elections, a free press, the right to a trial etc.

I don't like it anymore than you do, but it's absolutely vital that we allow it.

Not so great. I really wasn't expecting this shit storm and I've found it pretty distressing.

Ach, I'm sorry if I've contributed to the shitstorm, Questioning. I do think it's a really important topic, and I hope you're feeling better soon.

I am really sorry OP. You can hide the thread. No one would expect you to keep reading.

I saw your earlier threads (I name changed recently ) and know this a decision you made carefully and thoughtfully. Sod all of us names on a screen. Do you have support?

yy sorry if anything I've said has upset you too. I hope you have some RL support x

maybe it's time to hide this now.

No I don't libraries

I've found mumsnet really helpful before especially when I was going through stuff/leaving exP. I shouldn't have posted, i wasn't looking for this.

Thankyou

Is there a friend you could tell?

If you were near me I'd take you out in the sunshine or something.

Please don't feel you shouldn't have posted love. Your post was so powerful although am guessing that's the last thing you either meant it to be or feel right now.

Please see it less as a negative shit storm but a force of support and a wave of empathy to you today and whenever you feel strong enough to post and share.

I guess it's turned so controversial as posters felt the absolute need to agree with your op, defend your rights and those of all women.

I am so sorry you are hurting.

Sorry I know so many people have offered their support and have defended me and other women in my position I really am grateful for that. I'm just delicate and it's all been a bit much.

I really don't have anyone irl I could tell. I lost all my friends bar one when I left exP, and the one I have left I know for a fact would not be supportive.

Oh that's bloody awful and you have absolutely no need to be sorry for anything.

Have you tried mumsnet local? There may be mumsnetters living near who would offer you support and a bit of friendship. Might be worth a look? Xx

"It's ridiculous equating private property to the street outside a business or medical facility."

I wasn't. It's an example of how the right to protest about anything, anywhere is not absolute.

"Countries that curtail peaceful protest almost always end up curtailing elections, a free press, the right to a trial etc.

I don't like it anymore than you do, but it's absolutely vital that we allow it."

Again, I'm not suggesting that people can't protest. Just that it might, perhaps, be right to consider that it's not always appropriate to do so in certain places because lord knows we can't expect the nutters to self-regulate.

I still haven't heard a good explanation for why these people exercise their right to protest outside abortion clinics rather than outside the offices of pharmaceutical companies who make the pills or Parliament, who make the laws allowing abortion.

Protesting outside either of those places surely has the potential of saving thousands of "lives" rather than the odd one or two as a result of scaring a woman away from a clinic.

Pretty inefficient of them, considering how strongly they feel about it.

Buffer zones outside clinics that perform abortions do not remove anyone's right to protest or free speech. They simply insist that these actions aren't carried out when people are making personal healthcare choices.

From BPAS last year, in response to concerns about curtailing of rights that may accompany legislation:-

'BPAS has no desire to restrict freedom of speech or the right to protest and has resisted calling for legislation to tackle this problem for several years. We have tried a number of routes to stop this activity – including contacting the churches which support these people and asking them to consider the impact it has on women - but all to no avail. We regularly debate people opposed to what we do, and have no desire to shut debate down – but we feel strongly that women coming for pregnancy advice and abortion care aren't coming to have a debate but to access a private medical service, and should be left alone.'

'The type of legislation we are proposing would apply very specifically to abortion clinics and pregnancy advisory bureaux. The Department of Health holds a list of these facilities. As with animal rights extremism legislation, this would be tightly drafted to deal with the behaviour of activists in these settings. This will ensure that it cannot be used to stop workers protesting outside a workplace or to curtail the right to protest in general. The point about this pushing the groups back but not entirely removing them is well made – buffer or 'access' zones will not solve the problem outright. But they would make it easier to provide a safe access route for women and staff and include provisions like stopping activists approaching women unsolicited and filming people immediately outside clinics.'

If one believes that life begins at conception and that abortion is absolutely wrong, then fine, don't have an abortion.

At the moment, the laws of the UK don't state that, so buffer zones would better enable other people to get on with their lawful business without being harassed and intimidated.

Questioning Sounds like you're in a tough place at the moment.

"This too will pass" -- it will, but it's bloody painful waiting for it to pass ...

questioningstuff.

I'm sorry that you've found this thread so distressing, especially in light of your current circumstances.

But as someone spelled out upthread, the absolute majority of people on this thread understand and empathise with your anger about your experiences of feeling bullied.

Jim
Sorry youre feeling so bad right now op xx

Questioning, thank you for coming back. You're clearly having a hard time. I'd second the suggestion of Mumsnet Local.

From me, and it's hardly adequate I know, but here are some and and .

OP I haven't rtft because I've seen enough like it before to know the sort of shite that will be spouted on here about how the rights of an embryo trump any need to behave sensitively toward you and I really don't want to have to read it again because it's not good for my bilious rage.

What I will say is that about this time last year I had a termination. I have 2 DC and after a lot of soul-searching and with a lot of very good reasons I made the decision to terminate the pregnancy. I experienced exactly what you've described here; fuckwit protesters and their offensive leaflets. When they approached me I told them to fuck off, but it added another dimension of upset to what was already a distressing experience, and I am a strong, bolshy, ballsy woman, not a young teenager or victim of sexual assault. It is wrong to intimidate women in this way. I may not believe in gastric bands on the NHS (actually I do), but I wouldn't sit outside my local bariatric surgery unit with a banner saying 'there is another way, eat less pies) (again, not my views, just an example). Yes, people have a right to an opinion and there are appropriate places to voice those opinions. This is not one, these women have a right to sensitivity and discretion. It is disgraceful behaviour and the people who do it are scum, IMO.

Anyway, I digress. OP, I was where you are and it wasn't easy, but a year on I feel much stronger about it all. I know I made the right decision for my little family.

I really hope you feel better soon, my best advice is to hide this thread and look after yourself xx

I still haven't heard a good explanation for why these people exercise their right to protest outside abortion clinics rather than outside the offices of pharmaceutical companies who make the pills or Parliament, who make the laws allowing abortion.

Because it's controversial, and people debate it, and start threads like this one, and it keeps the topic fresh and in the public domain.

Which is what they want.

I am pro life for myself. I would never stand outside clinics and harass anyone though. However some or most pro lifers see the foetus as a life and feel very strongly that they should try and step in and save the life that is about to be destroyed, example if you see someone about to kill a dog on the street you would feel the need to step in even if it wouldn't do any good. I am so sorry you are having a hard time though op and that your experience was made even more heartbreaking xxxxxx

It really annoys me when anti-abortionists call themselves "pro-life." I'd say that pretty much EVERYONE is "pro-life."

Some of us are pro-choice. And some people are anti-abortion. But being anti-abortion doesn't mean you're the only person who's pro-life. Someone who's pro-choice is also pro-life.

How can pro-abortionists, with a straight face, in any way describe themselves as "pro-life" when they actively support the "right" to deny a life? If you're killing a heartbeat, you're not pro-life, let's get that straight.

Because they're pro the life that matters, the woman's.

Unlike your crowd.

HTH.