To think men have no right to stand outside abortion clinics and do this.

[QuestioningStuff]

Posted before about my pregnancy. I am having a termination today. This is not a decision I've made lightly.

I've arrived at the clinic and there is a middle aged man and his young teen son standing outside with camp chairs and flasks. Putting up awful pictures and signs. Trying to hand out leaflets.

I think women who do this are also scum but how on earth could a man think he has any right to do this? Turn up at a place where women are at their most scared and vulnerable and try to bully them?

It's really really upset me. I hate them so much right now.

I want to go and tell them exactly what I think of them but don't think that would be helpful at this time.

Well quite, twofingers.

I'm not sure that manipulating vulnerable women by offering short-term practical and social help would count as enabling someone to make a 'choice' either tbh.

One such comment:

Yet they made that choice? No one pinned them down and forced them in to abortion did they?

No one "forced" the Colorado man to amputate his own arm with a pocket knife when he was trapped for days under an 800lb boulder either, but I wouldn't describe his decision to hack off his own arm as a choice.
Had there only been some burly medics with entonox and heavy lifting gear I imagine he might have chosen to keep both arms.

Yeah but he wouldn't have to financially support the rock for 18 years to come with no home to go

No one "forced" the Colorado man to amputate his own arm with a pocket knife when he was trapped for days under an 800lb boulder either, but I wouldn't describe his decision to hack off his own arm as a choice. Had there only been some burly medics with entonox and heavy lifting gear I imagine he might have chosen to keep both arms.

Oh dear. Is that the sound of a barrel being scraped?

This thread is about whether or not protestors are all judgemental haters and harassers and should be banned isn't it?

From what I have seen of GCN (and I got to know the founder & became friends when she offered to help me no strings attached) their help is tailored to the needs of the individual. They aren't a glossy organisation with decent PR, it consists of a few very devout Catholics although I did once talk to a pagan/Wiccan lady on the phone.

It's not an official organisation but a charity consisting of good-hearted people who happen to be devoutly religious. Their thing is to help pregnant women. And you're all like "they don't really care about women because if they did they'd do this instead". M'kay.

I'm not sure that manipulating vulnerable women by offering short-term practical and social help would count as enabling someone to make a 'choice' either tbh

Don't you think vulnerable women might equally be manipulated into abortion by offering that alone and no other solutions?
The women I talked to didn't want abortion. They chose it as a last resort because they were destitute and could see no way out.
Offering to support them to make the choice they really want to make can hardly be described as "manipulation" imo.

So twofingers thinks that paying someone's rent so they can keep their baby is manipulation and not anything to do with Christian values about helping the poor then? What's wrong with helping women to realise a future with their babies or helping them escape abusive coercive environments?

Their 'thing' is to help pregnant women by lying to them about the 'common complications' of abortion, aka preying on people's fears.

Do you really think, Marie, that people are 'manipulated' into abortion by charities like BPAS?
And would you mind answering my question about how/why the women you 'talked to' weren't eligible for any kind of state support to enable them to continue with the pregnancies if that's what they wished to do?

fizzy - I'm questioning how long-term that 'support' is and why its providers need to lie in order to 'help' women.

This thread is about whether or not protestors are all judgemental haters and harassers and should be banned isn't it?

Actually this thread is about a woman who took a painful decision to terminate her pregnancy and was upset by being confronted by 'protestors' with pictures and signs when entering the clinic.

Are you talking about the UK? Are you really claiming that the state offers no assistance with benefits, housing or childcare?

That's exactly what I'm saying.
Unfortunately such women are invisible to most of the posters here. They are cleaning the kitchens of the chichi ethnic restaurants you visit and doing the ironing in your nice homes.
Invisible women with no employment rights, no benefit rights, no right to free obstetric care and zero interest from the sisterhood who denounce the few people who care about them as manipulative, harassing bullies.
The only thing that they can access for free is abortion.
And the crowning insult is that you insist they had a choice.

What's wrong with helping women to realise a future with their babies or helping them escape abusive coercive environments?
Nothing at all is wrong with this if that's what the woman wants. I believe in choice. Not lies or coercion. And I believe that 'help' should not have strings attached.

So if a child is unwanted, they are of lesser value? Is it ok to abort at full term because you suddenly no longer want the child. Being wanted is not a human right.

Just because a baby is not wanted doesn't strip them of their humanity or right to life.

Didn't a woman die from abortion recently in the UK? Think there is a prosecution imminent. Every procedure carries a risk. And women should be informed.

But seriously I have proper work to do now. So logging off for a bit.

They are cleaning the kitchens of the chichi ethnic restaurants you visit and doing the ironing in your nice homes.

You can eff off with those assumptions. You have no idea what life I've led/am leading.

If you are talking about illegal immigrants/trafficked women your post could have made that clear.

*So if a child is unwanted, they are of lesser value? Is it ok to abort at full term because you suddenly no longer want the child. Being wanted is not a human right.

Just because a baby is not wanted doesn't strip them of their humanity or right to life.*

Full term is a different discussion altogether. However, if I decided to abort at 16 weeks because I didn't want the baby, then I'm being fairer by aborting than going full term and having the baby put in to care/adopted. There are far too many children out there in need of good homes as it is.

But if they are unwanted it could well strip them of the ability to actually be fed or loved or housed. beaches so engines the parents just can't.

"saving" on life bases in lies just destroys lives already here. Don't you see that.

Because sometimes the parents just can't.

fuck knows what the phone did there

Didn't a woman die from abortion recently in the UK?
Didn't tens of thousands of women die from unsafe abortion last year outside the UK?

And what happens to the baby then fizzy

when the mothers a wreck or when the dad's walked out or there's no electric to boil water and make the milk. when parents have to decide between nappies and heating.

do tell me what happens to this baby someone else decided deserved to live no matter the cost and ran the mum off at the clinic.

Yes, an Irish woman bled to death in a taxi following an abortion in a Marie Stopes clinic in London. The doctor and two nurses who carried out the procedure are facing trial for gross negligence.

Not backstreet, Marie Stopes.

I take it that you are talking about women who are illegal immigrants or who have been trafficked, Fizzy. Aren't GCN on slippery ground legally if they are helping illegal immigrants to stay in the country indefinitely? And are they seriously going to continue supporting those women until their children grow up? Because they can't work legally and can't access help or social services care, let alone education.