To consider reporting this couple to S.S.?

[MrsV2012]

Im pretty new to MN so please be gentle

I'll try to keep it brief if I can. OH and our family moved from our home town a couple of years ago. One of OH's friends and his DP had a young baby when we left. She had never been an organised or tidy person, but at the point we left the town, it was worse than ever. I don't mean a bit of normal mess and clutter, it was actually hard to navigate through the clutter, and the oven looked so unclean, it would make you ill to eat from it. OH's friend worked 70+ hours a week, came home and found nappies stuffed behind the sofa, kitchen piled high, and baby handed to him as he came through the door while she went to bed.
I thought maybe PND, so offered (discreetly) to help with the baby if she needed a break, but they have a good extended family and HV, so said they'd were fine.

Fast forward a couple of years, we've just visited family and friends in our home town for the 1st time since. Talking to a mutual friend, it turns out the couple are in a worse state than they were before.
I asked where are his and her extended family in this- apparently one set of GPs had the baby for a week, while the other GPs gutted the house- but it's back in the same state again now.
The child (now nearly 3) is still in the Playpen he was in when we left the town, because (I presume) it's the only bit of the house safe to be in. He has been walking since 11 months, how is a Playpen enough space, or healthy for a toddler to be in all day?
DH's friend said the couple never take the child out to any activities or nursery, he just sits and watches TV programmes from his Playpen.

I only found all this out yesterday night, and don't know what to do. OH's friend we visited, said he was shocked to see it. It was the first time she'd answered the door to him visiting in a while.
I just don't think it's right, that a nearly 3 year old child sits in a hovel of a home in his playpen, watching tv with the curtains closed. I don't think I should ignore it.

What would you do? Thank you in advance.

athenaviolet you're either a person with a dangerously small amount of child protection training who thinks that makes her an expert, or a really bad social worker. Your opinion here is dangerous. What the op has described sounds like chronic neglect and it is absolutely appropriate to refer to social services for an assessment. Pipe down with your scoffing because you are wrong.

Thank you lessisless x I genuinely am concerned, and not judging them. I think maybe SS involvement may help them to organise their home and see that the way they are living isn't giving their Son everything he needs and deserves. I just want to help

It isn't a child protection issue (in the legal sense) but it is most definitely a care and welfare issue. I have seen the effects of a child left in a play pen where they were fed (chucked food) and entertained (ripping up old magazines). At age 4 the child still has little language and is now in care.

op just report,it dosent matter if you havent seen it for yourself etc etc

SS can visit and make their own minds up

some little boy may well be very greatful that you done something while others passed him by

All the things you have mentioned sound so minor but if they live like that all the time the child isn't being socialised and is probably being neglected emotionally.

Was the boy clean and fed ?as that is really enough for ss not to do much of anything.
if it's just objects lying around then I can see that being a cp issue.

I know of a dc who lived in the same sort of circumstances but much much worse(pychological abuse) as a baby until age 5 and then she was removed and given to dgp's who weren't much better.
She doesnt know it affected her deeply and
she has a chronic physical issue due to the pychological abuse and neglect.

Iv actually seen 3 sets of families in this type of scenario one you couldn't breath for the smell.
only 2/3 had eventual ss remove them.
nothing will change overnight for the dc.

Meant to say can't see it being a cp issue

Emotional a abuse is now considered on par with physical abuse. Mn can be so 'don't judge' that it swings the other way
Yes please report this.

Surely you don't wait until you're 100% certain that a child is being neglected before you call SS. I don't have the same power to investigate what's going on in someone else's home than SS do. If I was at all concerned I would report to SS with a factual report of what I know and how I know it then leave them to decide whether there's a problem or not.

AT the very least SS might visit the couple and convince them to enrol the child in nursery - 15 hours out of the house will surely be better than all day watching TV. If not they may be eligible for other support services.

I think people are confusing the threshold required to remove a child with the threshold required for ss to be involved.

This couple don't seem to think there's problem they're happy with it the way it is.
so they probably don't see the need to change anything regardless of any help they get offered.

Lots of people don't change even after everything has been done to to try and it seems it may be too late for them and if not will probably be too late for the dc anyway.

Ashtray. Yes. You are right. Some people seem to be very clear on what SS will do or not and actually they haven't a clue!

Removal is a course of action dependent upon an assessment. As yet there has been no assessment. This may be a chi,d at risk but he is certainly a child in need. Come on OP just report it.

SS in my area would be interested in this. A friend of the family was reported for her house being in a similar state. I never saw it but the child was removed and taken to my Mum's house whilst she was interviewed.

The house was (apparently) filled with stuff - every room filled. All up the stairs, on every surface.

The difference though is that this child was taken out loads by the Mum and was very much loved. Unfortunatly her own upbringing had impacted on her parenting skills and she needed the help to make her home safe again.

A year later, things are much improved and as far as I know SS are not involved anymore

Christ on a bike, MN is SO apologist/liberal these days.

PP is correct. Try and get your friend to report this out and out neglect himself using his first hand evidence.

If he doesn't then firstly, question him...and secondly do it yourself, stating that it is second hand evidence, which by the way is still evidence.

Only on MN will a plethora of excuses for the parents (or should I say, the mother - fuck knows where the useless shite of a father comes into it, the uselessness of the mother has clearly rubbed off on him) and attacks on the OP for being (boak) judgemental stem from a story such as this.

I will judge useless, selfish, lazy parents. Every. Single. Day. And I will judge their family who sit idly by whilst a child, an innocent without voice or choice, a beautiful blank slate of potential, rots in an inadequate home.

If YOU wouldn't have your children live like that then why is it ok for someone else's child to live like that.

And it doesn't matter if SS have other more serious stuff on. Report. Report. Report again.

When you do child protection training, the message is always 'report anything that concerns you, and let a trained, qualified professional decide whether it warrants further action.' That seems like a reasonable line to take in a case such as this - you can't do much more yourself, OP, but sharing your concerns with someone who can is a reasonable step.

Agreed Gay. Spot on.

I knew a couple like this. Turned out the mother had undiagnosed autism. She'd been to a boarding school where SEN was not the sort of thing one mentioned, never worked, married young, etc - just missed the opportunity to meet anyone who might have diagnosed her.

In the event, the birth of her second child, who is severely autistic among other things, meant she went to a psych apt at which the HCPs diagnosed her before they started on her DS.

It was a tricky situation for a while - she point blank refused any help with all 4 DCs and their disgusting home. Her DH rose to the occasion and did most of the childcare and housekeeping despite a FT job, but visiting did make your jaw drop. Even their dog wouldn't go into the kitchen.

Finally, after having her fourth child, she accepted a stranger in the house to clean and cook. Things are much better for the children now.

Round of applause for Gay! Very well said

The sad part is: they dont answer the door to people they know. If HV or SS is called, they bloody wont open the door to them the first time or the second. They will send letters, and srnd someone out to knock the door every couple of months. It will probably take repeated reports to keep the file from drifting to the bottom of someone's to do pile. Both sets of grandparents may turn up to do another ckear out and all will look well when they finally let investigators in.

Call anyway. And encourage those more local to also call.

Another one agreeing with Gay. Not one person on here would be happy with their child living like this.

Report it OP. SS can then make the decision. I couldn't not report. That poor little boy. He must be big enough to climb out of the pen but doesn't for some reason. That's very concerning.

OP not read all messages, as I was getting too infuriated by the description of using a playpen all day for a pre-schooler as 'different parenting styles' from some posters.

However, I am a CP social worker and would say report report report. It's irrelevant if we see worse, the fact of the matter is that this simply doesn't sound like 'good enough' parenting. Chronic neglect so often gets ignored and the impact is horrendous and inter - generational.

I understand the concern about hearsay but at the end of the day, SWs don't just swoop in and remove children. Contact will be made and an assessment potentially completed. If the hearsay is incorrect then involvement will end very swiftly. That, to me, is far more palatable as an idea than a vulnerable child growing up in a neglectful situation.

It may well be that parents just need some support, and a referral can fast track them to that. Removal is only considered in the most extreme situations, we want families to remain together, despite what the Daily Mail may have people think!

I would report this and I don't usually say that.

""The sad part is: they dont answer the door to people they know. If HV or SS is called, they bloody wont open the door to them the first time or the second. They will send letters, and srnd someone out to knock the door every couple of months. It will probably take repeated reports to keep the file from drifting to the bottom of someone's to do pile.""

Three no answers and it should be a Police Matter, or SS can insist on the children being presented, this will be court ordered.

Gone are the days of months of knocking, if your LA SS team are performing like this, then they are breaking the law and can be reported.

This is a CP matter because the child is at risk of significant harm.

EA is taken as seriously as Physical and this can be predicted harm.

There is a lot of misinformation on this thread (as usual).

There are some LAs whose SS departments regularly need Special Measures and a Task Force going in, but their practices aren't the ones that should be judged whether a case should be reported.

Most of the families that came under CP in the LA that I worked in, was because the Mother had undiagnosed MH issues.

It benefited the whole family to have SS intervention.