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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To consider reporting this couple to S.S.?

110 replies

MrsV2012 · 21/06/2015 12:19

Im pretty new to MN so please be gentle Smile

I'll try to keep it brief if I can. OH and our family moved from our home town a couple of years ago. One of OH's friends and his DP had a young baby when we left. She had never been an organised or tidy person, but at the point we left the town, it was worse than ever. I don't mean a bit of normal mess and clutter, it was actually hard to navigate through the clutter, and the oven looked so unclean, it would make you ill to eat from it. OH's friend worked 70+ hours a week, came home and found nappies stuffed behind the sofa, kitchen piled high, and baby handed to him as he came through the door while she went to bed.
I thought maybe PND, so offered (discreetly) to help with the baby if she needed a break, but they have a good extended family and HV, so said they'd were fine.

Fast forward a couple of years, we've just visited family and friends in our home town for the 1st time since. Talking to a mutual friend, it turns out the couple are in a worse state than they were before.
I asked where are his and her extended family in this- apparently one set of GPs had the baby for a week, while the other GPs gutted the house- but it's back in the same state again now.
The child (now nearly 3) is still in the Playpen he was in when we left the town, because (I presume) it's the only bit of the house safe to be in. He has been walking since 11 months, how is a Playpen enough space, or healthy for a toddler to be in all day?
DH's friend said the couple never take the child out to any activities or nursery, he just sits and watches TV programmes from his Playpen.

I only found all this out yesterday night, and don't know what to do. OH's friend we visited, said he was shocked to see it. It was the first time she'd answered the door to him visiting in a while.
I just don't think it's right, that a nearly 3 year old child sits in a hovel of a home in his playpen, watching tv with the curtains closed. I don't think I should ignore it.

What would you do? Thank you in advance.

OP posts:
MrsSquirrel · 21/06/2015 14:03

Good idea Sovery! Could friends persuade them to enroll the lad in nursery?

Also would they be open to some support from something like Homestart? If the family need support, they may be able to get it even without going through ss.

MrsJoeDolan · 21/06/2015 14:04

Report anyway. Even if it doesn't meet the threshold for social services involvement, it may meet the threshold for a targeted support service - that's what would happen in my area anyway

MrsJoeDolan · 21/06/2015 14:06

agree with birds

binspin · 21/06/2015 14:08

Would the friend who passed on this gossip not call ss as he has seen it for himself?

ohtheholidays · 21/06/2015 14:14

Please contact SS today.This happens all the time now,it has been for years but it is getting so much worse.

Over 90% of people think well it's not my place,or someone else will have reported what's going on,or will say they're to busy to make a quick phone call that could in some cases have saved a child's life!

You know what you've seen and you know how bad it was,they should have been reported at the beginning and now others that know them are stating that it's got worse.

Take it from some one that's worked in this field Apathy of others is one of the biggest problems when it comes to identifying family's/children that need help!

Birdsgottafly · 21/06/2015 14:15

You're all ignoring that the house has been gutted once and went back to how it was.

The couple are probably rejecting the help from the GPs.

The house has to be on a functioning level from HS to go in. We've (SS, FS) Have refered families to HS and have been rejected because it is outside of their remit. They are a helping service not an intervention.

The OP needs to encourage others to report this child's neglect and if they won't, then report her concerns.

LaLyra · 21/06/2015 14:36

In that case Mrs if your friend won't report to SS then I would.

It is very easy for people to get blinded by what they are used too, and blinded by the fact that the parents are "good people" and end up not reporting to SS. It sounds like the parents need help.

What's the alternative? Let the kid languish until he goes to school and hope they notice it?

Everybody, Somebody, Anybody and Nobody ends up springing to mind in lots of cases where children are being neglected.

Athenaviolet · 21/06/2015 14:45

Being in pyjamas at home during the day isn't a cp issue.
Using a playpen isn't a cp issue.
Watching a lot of TV isn't a cp issue.
Having piles of DVDs isn't a cp issue.

The only cp issue you have mentioned is having dirty nappies not being put in the bin.

It is gossip. And referrals based on spurious info like this takes social workers away from real children in need.

RiverTam · 21/06/2015 14:55

But surely living in such sn unsafe environment that re only safe place for a mobile child is a playpen is a CP issue? And the watching of very age inappropriate TV? And the lack of any interaction and any kind of stimulation other than TV?

OP, I think you need to encourage your friends who are still local to this couple and have seen the child's home circumstances, to make the reports to SS. But if they won't then I think you will have to. The family clearly can't cope.

Soveryupset · 21/06/2015 15:00

When I was little I was in a similar situation. Not in a playpen, but we lived four people in a one bedroom flat, it was always a tip and my mum never took us anywhere. We were also very poor and I only ever possessed one set of clothes. When they were in the wash, I spent the time in my PJs. My mum never let anyone in our house or near it, I can see why now, reading through these posts. She probably knew it wasn't fine, but there wasn't any help available.

My mum at one point felt sorry for us and started farming us out to other people, especially in the summer. I suspect these people felt sorry for us and offered to take us on holiday. In the years I went on holiday with pretty much all my neighbours, as well as extended family who I hardly knew.

I you had asked me or my brother, we much rather have stayed at home in our cramped little flat. I felt really upset being shipped off from pillar to post, I missed my mum and dad, even though they were struggling with us, and I wasn't always treated well.

What would have really helped, would have been someone to sort my mum's issues, some of which were fixable, including money.

Make of that what you wish.

Goldenbear · 21/06/2015 15:20

Athenaviolet, it's 'neglect' so stop with the poor advice. Take one of the observations- 3 year old in a playpen, how is that age appropriate, how's plonking them in a playpen to watch TV all day meeting their emotional needs? how's allowing a 3 year old to live in filth and squalor meeting their physical care needs?

Op, you or someone need to 'act' on this. In my area I know that SS would make a home visit in this situation.

SunnyBaudelaire · 21/06/2015 15:27

In my area it would be enough for a CP meeting and going on to the 'at risk' register or whatever it is called these days.

LIZS · 21/06/2015 15:34

But the op hasn't made these observations for herself. It is hearsay. Ask your friend to report. At least the child has a playpen providing a safe place to play, presumably is fed, changed and sleeps. If the father was so concerned he could have done/do something to help. It does sound as if there are underlying issues but I don't think it is your place to report until you have seen the situation. Work on your friend who has in the meantime.

Birdsgottafly · 21/06/2015 15:35

""And referrals based on spurious info like this takes social workers away from real children in need.""

No it doesn't, that's a common misconception. That's why we have investigating SWs, then when a plan is being fully put together a different CP SW will be asigned. If a LA is struggling with their referals, they will bring in agency/other LA SWs. But, by law are not allowed to be set for Child Abuse investigation or dealing with CA.

I agree with each of those things not being a CP issue, but to the they paint a different picture, that's why after Baby P's death, there was a change, because all the components wasn't put together adequately.

This is a matter for SS.

Birdsgottafly · 21/06/2015 15:39

""At least the child has a playpen providing a safe place to play, presumably is fed, changed and sleeps.""

So were the Romanian children, they ended up with long term MH issues, that's why prisoners in the UK need cells a certain size, a clean environment and exercise/Mental simulation.

"The Father would do something".

Many co parents enable and collude in neglect.

Lagoonablue · 21/06/2015 16:09

I love the social work experts dishing out advice...some of whom are clearly not social workers.

To the people that say it's not a CP issue. You are not trained to make that decision. There is a scale. Social workers assess based in need and risk amongst other things, not everything has to be a safeguarding before intervention is deemed appropriate. Yes I am a social worker btw.

OP, I would advise you report. Think how you would feel if you were the one person who had the opportunity to help and didn't. There may be other pieces of information around that will help paint the picture of this child's situation.They may just need support but someone needs to go in and see what is needed, make an assessment. Enough people have expressed concerns. And yes social workers would be concerned to make an initial assessment.

zazzie · 21/06/2015 16:14

If a 3 year old is spending long periods of time in a play pen, then I would report it. It's concerning that the 3 year old is not trying to get out of the play pen.

Original poster
MrsV2012 · 21/06/2015 16:46

cansu , I can't just go and see them, I tried on friday when visiting my old home town, but they didn't answer. We are home now, and live 7 hours away.

OP posts:
Iliveinalighthousewiththeghost · 21/06/2015 17:04

You have no choice op. You have to report. We all have a morale obligation and a duty of care to report it when we see something wrong.
By your post I don't think they are bad people. They've justify their way and need guidance help and support

EscapePea · 21/06/2015 17:11

I agree with Goldenbear, Athenaviolet's advice is poor. I don't understand the negativity towards the OP from some posters, e.g. accusing her of judging. She didn't come across as judgmental at all. I do really question some posters' motivations.

RipMacWinkle · 21/06/2015 17:20

I understand your friend didn't want to report as they'd been in recently and the couple would know it'd been them who did so.

However, if you now report based on what you've heard, the couple will probably still think that it was the friend anyway.

Maybe you need to make your friend aware that if they don't do anything you will. And assumptions may be made anyway.

lessisless · 21/06/2015 17:24

OP, yes i could report to SS. The situation doesn't sound good. Leaving a child to watch TV in a playpen all day everyday whilst the house is in an unfit state is akin to child abuse as the child will not be able to develop properly and this would affect his health physical and emotional negatively Sad.

Your posts sound not judgmental but concerned and balanced. I think you are being courageous, other people seem to just watch on and talk refusing to engage themselves. The family sound like they are in need of support, reporting may be the best thing that could happen to this child Sad.

lessisless · 21/06/2015 17:24

*physical and emotional health rather.

lessisless · 21/06/2015 17:25

I say this having been on a child protection course as part of my training.

Momagain1 · 21/06/2015 17:28

That both sets of grandparents tried to solve the issues of filth shows they are aware. They will probably continue to chip away at the problem without ever resolving it until they are limited by declining health. But they arent likely to report for fear of not being awarded the child if he is taken from his parents home.

Since you havent actually witnessed the current state, perhaps your best move is to enourage those that have to report. Your friend is afraid they will know he called, but after all this time, they probably wont make the connection. And you say others mention t to you too. Start asking everyone why dont they report it.