to think underweight teens are a bigger/more common problem than overweight ones?

[manicinsomniac]

There is so much in the news/media in general about the obesity crisis and the number of obese children and teenagers.

I guess I believe the figures (I mean, I assume they're factual statistics!) but I find it difficult because it's so completely different to the reality I see around me.

My 12 year old year 7 daughter has been underweight and suffering from disordered eating since she was 7. She was diagnosed with anorexia earlier this year. Today we learned that a 13 year old girl in the year above will be leaving the school to go into a residential eating disorder treatment centre. She is anorexic too. A 10 year old boy in my tutor group is currently trying to avoid eating lunch and is already underweight. A 10 year old girl has recently been in counselling due to a fear of eating. There are many other very thin children in the school.

In my daughters year of approx. 45, I would say there are two overweight children and 11 who are thin to the point of it being surprising or noticeable (difficult to say underweight without knowing what's normal for them). For most, I hope it's pre pubescent/natural/the result of being very sporty. But I don't know.

I can count the numbers of visibly overweight children in the school on my fingers and that's in a school of around 350.

I worry that the publicity the obesity crisis is getting is actually starting to drive children the other way. I've had an eating disorder since I was 15 but at 12 I didn't even know what a calorie was and had never considered my body shape. Now we have 7 and 8 year olds learning about what foods they should 'rarely eat' and 10 year olds worrying about getting weighed. It feels counter productive and disturbing to me. AIBU?

I've worked in CAMHS and have to say that the majority of inpatients with eating disorders went like that due to social influences. Their problem was abuse or mental health issues in the family. It was their one way of controlling something in their life.

It was the same for me as a teenager, nothing to do with adverts or social pressure but a way of controlling a very messed up family life.

When my DD had her appendix out a few years ago, they asked if she was at her normal weight. When I looked puzzled by this question, they said most children they saw were overweight, it was rare to see one in the normal range and they'd just wanted to check she hadn't lost weight recently!! It's hard to say how it should be dealt with, obviously the many who are overweight need support for future health, but how it's done without affecting others I don't know.

Being overweight shouldn't have anything to do with low incomes (and only class if you're not educated enough to know what's good or bad). In fact, you could argue if you're on a low budget you're more likely to be underweight as you can't buy the extras or treats. We constantly have to watch our money, my food, cleaning and toiletry budget is £45-50 a week (last two weeks I've spent under £40) - I spend it on mainly healthy foods, not loads of cheap cakes and fried foods.

Teaching about healthy eating needs to be addressed in schools though as due to the obesity crisis its most certainly not something the majority of parents educate their children about.

We live in a reasonably affluent area and I was shocked when I went to my daughters school a couple of years ago, putting her in year 8, that some of the girls were bigger than me. When I was growing up there were no girls in my school at that age that were bigger than an adult.

I agree lottie that poverty is only part of a much bigger picture when it comes to obesity.

I live in a very deprived London borough and still it seems to be more about the sheer volume of food consumed, rather than the quality. Also, lack of regular exercise seems to play a large part.

I think it is a class thing tbh - the pressure that private school children are under is immense, which coupled with more pressure from middle class parents to stay slim/be sporty etc is a toxic cocktail.

I think you only have to look at the sizes of school uniforms to realise there is a weight problem among schoolchildren.

My DS1 spent his entire last year of school wearing jeans as the school pants didn't fit him. He's 6ft 3in and skinny - to get pants long enough in the leg meant they were 10in too big in the waist. Absolutely ridiculous and I refused to buy him suit pants for school as he did chemistry and biology.

We had to call an ambulance for DD1 a couple of years ago when she collapsed and both the paramedics and ER Dr questioned me at great length about her anorexia. She's not anorexic, just slightly slimmer than she should be but compared to the overweight teens they usually see she looked very thin.

Being overweight shouldn't have anything to do with low incomes (and only class if you're not educated enough to know what's good or bad).

I do wonder if working poor - of which my area has many - are the worst hit.

Both or single parent working but still having low income but physically and emotionally tired. They often drive the dc to school as they have to get to work. Perhaps don't have time and energy to plan and cook meals, go to local parks and walks but don't have extra money for the paid activities more affluent working families do.

Our local council does offer subsides swimming lessons. We can't afford to run a car. My DC will happily walk the 4 miles to the nearest swimming pool - but while they can manage it back usually after swimming not so much. So the bus is £12 back and taxi 9-10. So on top of swimming lessons we end up with 40/50 in transport costs a month which we just can't afford.

Children should be learning about nutrition, and that foods high in saturated fat aren't things that should be eaten on a daily basis. Why on earth does that worry you?

because I don't want my 8 year old thinking some foods should be avoided and that some things she gets given to eat aren't good for her. Obviously she will eat some foods more because I give them to her more. But, until she makes her own decisions about what and when to eat I don't want her to think of food as anything other than fuel.

You only have to look at the figures to see that on a nationwide basis, obesity is much more common than anorexia. It might not be the case in YOUR particular school/social circles, but that doesn't change the case for the rest of the nation.

I guess. I think maybe I thought I had a wider social circle than perhaps I do. Eg, we go to church in a very mixed area of a city but I don't see much obesity. And the dance, gymnastics etc that they do are possibly more middle class than I automatically think they are. We aren't wealthy though. I guess middle class, as I'm a teacher. But the private school thing is totally by default.

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"Being overweight shouldn't have anything to do with low incomes"

It shouldn't. But it does.

I live in a very aspirational middle-class small spa town. There is one secondary school here. I'm always shocked when I'm out in town at lunchtime at the size of many of the schoolkids - hugely overweight stuffing fizzy drinks, crisps, pies into themselves. Honestly it's like some sort of spoof satirical TV show. In all of my current acquaintance group I know only one young woman (22, friend of DS2) who I would genuinely say appears anorexic and one friend of my own age who I know controls her eating and obsesses about her weight.

Set that against the vast majority who are verging on overweight, are overweight or obese and I can't agree with the OP.

Correlation does not equal causation.

One of the symptoms of an eating disorder like anorexia is the way that the dysfunction of the central cortex causes the hippocampus to function abnormally. This has the affect of such things as skewed body image, loss or appetite, a deep need to be needed and useful and a drive to erfectionism in such things as school grades. The child pushes themselves before they get to these private /selective schools and that is why the schools have more anorexic pupils, because they seem to be a good fit.

At our private primary, I've only ever seen 1 obviously overweight child. There aren't many overweight parents either (though I am one of them).

The kids do a heck of a lot of sport, both in school and in local clubs after. At least half the mothers arrive in sports gear too.

I'm not aware of any very underweight kids, but mine are quite young and I don't have the familiarity with the he older ones.

I do worry about the links between kids being pushed and eating disorders. We are all trying our best and hoping for the best...

I am so, so sorry that you are dealing with an eating disorder. It is a terrifying and difficult medical issue to deal with, and one that is sadly increasingly common.

I'm afraid that statistically, however, obesity is a much greater problem than children being underweight. The data I'm drawing on here is the National Child Measurement Programme and the Health Survey for England. The figures for the former suggest that almost 20% of children aged 10-11 are obese. Figures for the prevalence of anorexia vary a bit, but seem to fall between 0.5 and 4% of young women (peaking perhaps in 15-19 year olds), so considerably lower.

However, I am not sure that this really gets to the heart of the problem. Obesity and anorexia may actually have more in COMMON than we might think, in terms of an unhealthy practical and emotional relationship towards exercise and food in our culture. Rather than seeing them as opposites, perhaps we should view them together?

Op you say you suffered from an eating disorder, could you possibly have influenced your daughter unknowingly? You say your friend also did, is this the teacher? Could she perhaps have instead?

Oh sure, undoubtedly I have influenced her. I must have done. My aunt and grandmother are also anorexic. It's a huge and enduring problem in our family and one of the main reasons why I never intended to have children.

No, my children's teachers are colleague friends, they don't have eating problems (afaik)

Oh, and I hope this isn't too contentious, but I think it's dangerous to judge someone's weight visually. First of all, it's possible to be very, very far off! Secondly, I have been very shocked when I've gone to other cultures that have less of a problem with obesity than we do here to discover that what is considered a 'normal' body size there is very much smaller than what is considered 'normal' here. It made me very aware how visually accustomed I had become to seeing a certain range of sizes. I'm not seeking to pass any value judgement on this, to say that one culture is better than another, just to say that judging whether someone is or is not overweight without data has all kinds of cultural limitations. (And yes, I know BMI is very limited too!)

Yes shovetheholly , I think that's a good point about viewing all eating disorders together. It would be interesting to see stats on weight problems (of all sizes) that are caused by psychological factors and ones (of all sizes) that aren't.

What I think is really dangerous, is when people start seeing different eating disorders as "good" or "bad", anorexia and obesity given value judgements, due to "working too hard" but obesity due to "laziness" etc.

Not saying it's on this thread in any way, just something I've seen/ heard/ read in the wider world.

The idea that anorexia is the flipside of obesity is dangerous nonsense tbh. While it is perfectly possible to be overweight and have an eating disorder, it's plainly not the case that all overweight preteens and teenagers are mentally ill.

manicinsomniac I hope you don't blame yourself for your DD's illness. I thought we'd moved away from the idea that mothers are always to blame :( The most successful approaches to anorexia involve the parents rather than blaming or excluding them (family therapy). My daughter has disordered attitudes to food/ weight and is at risk of anorexia (hopefully we have recognised it in time to prevent her actually becoming anorexic), but there are no anorexics at all in our family, on either side.

This seems to vary according to where you live.
My DC's go to a comprehensive in an affluent area and I would say what I see is what the OP sees. Very few teens are over weight and many girls including DD are noticeable skinny. DD says being skinny is the norm for a teen girl. She is 16.

I do think the idea that there is one way of 'healthy' eating to suit everyone is a dangerous message they are given in primary schools and which doesn't serve underweight children well once they hit puberty.

I have to feed my anorexic DD the kinds of foods that are banned from the 'healthy eating lunchbox'. Packets of crisps, chocolate bars, onion bahjis, anything fried, fatty or sugary is exactly what is healthy for her.

It is extraordinarily easy to become overweight or obese in today's society, I wouldn't say this is the same for anorexia. Being anorexic must take an enormous amount of control and discipline and in most cases is a conscious effort to resist food, whereas for most people who become overweight it is due to the exact opposite, and not something that someone does consciously. Therefore for the general fat person it isn't about mental illness, but rather their lifestyle and diet which cause it.

I honestly don't see huge amounts of underweight teenagers, but I see plenty of children who are far too fat

I'm not suggesting all mothers or manicinsomniac are to blame, I was very clear on pointing that out. When we are children we do pick up habits and attitudes from our parents/grandparents which are hard to break out of unless we identify them. Some things that work for our parents don't necessarily do so for us, so we need to identify them and break out.

My mother instilled a 'never leave anything on your plate' mentality, as a result I over ate bit as a child but I exercised a lot because she insisted on that too so luckily it largely balanced out. I do have to be careful though because I find it very hard to leave anything, it feels wrong. Which means if I get a large meal, I over eat- especially in restaurants. My mum's mentality comes from my grandparents who both lived through the war and had the mentality all food is precious and none should be left. No one is wrong but the idea doesn't work now for me, when it did then. Food was a lot less available then and portions smaller. I find portion control myself very hard and DP isn't too great either, so often I over eat.

On the flip side, my friend is obsessed with fitness and the gym, she counts calories. She was shocked when her son turned around and told off her father for eating too many calories when he ate gateau. She was being healthy and careful and veered into obsessed which has brushed off on her young son without her realising. She is so into fitness because her parents are overweight/obese and she doesn't want to become the same. She's very careful to show her son all foods are good in moderation but sometimes she slips back, as do her parents.

I know when I have to teach kids, it's going to be a struggle. I will find it hard to teach about potion control, because I find it hard- hopefully knowing my difficulties I can work on them and try not to show too much.

Anorexia is not about food
its about control

Obesity is about the genetics of deferred gratification
not food