Nazi memorabilia

[Marymaymay]

Went to local car boot this weekend, man had a stall bedecked with a huge Nazi swastika/SS flag, selling mainly Nazi memorabilia. As a 3rd generation Jewish immigrant family, most of whom perished in the war, I was shocked and saddened by this. Someone wrote words to this effect on a local gossip site and over 60 people have replied - the majority basically calling the OP a dickhead, that the war is over, people fought for freedom of expression so get over it. Was really surprised by this response. I can understand that I might be more sensitive than most on this topic but can't believe that most people think selling this stuff is ok...if there was an ISIS flag for sale the same people would be going beserk! So AIBU?

Yeah Ms - not sure I am up to a fight with them. Think I need to let it go! Also might be lynched in town next time I venture out.

YANBU - just the phrase 'Nazi memorabilia' makes me feel nauseous and exhausted.
A stall selling Nazi items, as you describe, is like a stall selling instruments of torture, or chains, branks, etc. used on people enslaved and transported from Africa. It's not just tasteless and offensive - it's way beyond both of those.

Nazism was not 'just another' philosophy or political movement. It was a sustained movement to murder and eradicate entire peoples.

It's true that much evil has been done in the name of religions. But that is not the same as genocide being those religions.

And this:

*Find me a religious or historical symbol that hasn't been associated with hatred or oppression or the brutal slaughter of millions.

Buddha, I suppose.*

is really badly informed. Have you seen what is being done to Rohinga people in Burma in the name of Buddhism? But attacks on Rohinga are not Buddhism. Nazism, on the other hand, was genocide.

I probably sound a bit ranty.

My point, though, is YANBU.

I believe that the sale and display of Nazi memorabilia is illegal in some countries - and for good reason.

OP, did you ask the seller why he had that stuff to sell? It would have been interesting to know.

If I had been with my grandma I honestly think she would have collapsed at the sight of the flag. She survived Kristallnacht in Austria, bribing her and her brother's way out of Austria on the Kindertransporter, arriving in England speaking not one word of English and building an entire new life aged 14 and 12.

Their home and all possessions were stolen by the Nazis, most family members died at Belsen or Auschwitz, hideous tales of babies and children murdered by the Nazis.

The sadness of this passed down through generations of my family through mental and physical ill health. I've purposely had to work to create a strong, loving family unit to put an end to the vicious cycle. I'm not sure many people recognise the lasting effect that the holocaust had not only on the survivors but on their families as well.

I really really wanted to spill my Jewish coffee all over his flag. Maybe I'll go back again next week

I didn't ask July. I would have liked to and this is going to sound awful but I am very obviously Jewish looking. I also had my little girl with me who is mixed race. I did not want to confront this guy, I guess having heard all the stories from my family, I figure steer well clear of any one who might identify with Nazi-ism/National Socialism.

I also just wanted to buy plastic tat and eat local strawberries. There was me thinking that that was what car boot sales were all about.

The holocaust was a mere split second ago in the story of time. Anyone who churns out the 'it's in the past, get over it' line is a dick of the dickiest order.

YA very definitely NBU.

I completely agree, JulyKit - crimes were not committed "in the name of Nazism", but the entire ideology constitutes a crime (against humanity).

I find it insufferably flippant to say that because atrocities have been committed elsewhere as well, Nazi memorabilia are not such a big deal.

I cannot think of anything comparable in terms of sheer evil; and it might be worth bearing in mind that the Shoa, a horror far surpassing anything Dante was able to come up with, merely constitutes the innermost circle of the hell that this regime was.

Nazi memorabilia belong in museums, they should only be seen in their proper context. They should not be sold privately.

I understand, Mary!

Having written that post, I started to wonder if I'd be able to bring myself to go up to a someone running that stall and speak civilly to them. I don't think I could (I'd probably start snarling uncontrollably, vomit on their on their precious 'merchandise', or just get the fuck away from them as quickly as possible).

I'm still intrigued to know what goes on inside the heads of people who sell/collect that shit. There must, after all be something going on...

YANBU. Where did he get it from in the first place? IMO, Things like that should be in a museum where they can be preserved sensitively, not bandied about at a car boot sale so someone can make a few quid. I would be very if I came across something like that.

YANBU - who exactly was he marketing this crap to - why I'll bet it was neo nazi third reich obsessed ignorant arse holes

It's got a place in museums. It's not something that should be sold at a car boots sale or the like. I don't even understand why anyone would want it. I'd feel my home was tainted with anything that symbolised Nazism. Ew. Just no.

Mary your last post about your grandma and other family members experience is incredibly moving. It should be against the law for memorabilia to be sold for private profit in such a way.

Most of it was probably fake and the idiots buying it paid for nothing other than a manufactured piece of hate filled tat.
But that doesn't make it acceptable.
As for the argument that "it is history and worse things happened" - well, it is very recent history and there are millions of people who are still affected every single day of their lives by Nazism. It was racist hate, portrayed very successfully as patriotism to a nation ground down and desperately seeking some sort of hope.

It should be against the law for memorabilia to be sold for private profit in such a way.

Oh the irony!

Look, I've got no time for Nazis, Nazi paraphernalia or any other such mindless tat, but when you start making laws about what flags can and can't be sold, well that's exactly the kind of thing the bloody Nazis believed in, and what people died fighting against!

My dh collects militaria, has done since he was a boy, but not from any particular 'side' - he does have some nazi ceremonial daggers in with the Napoleonic sabres and Indian muskets etc. I have mixed feelings, to say the least, but frankly I don't really like any of it.

He is not a fascist or a nazi sympathizer, it's just that 'collection' thing that blokes seem to suffer from. The daggers come in a bewildering range of styles and are very ornamental (it became a thing in 30's Germany, with ornate daggers used as badges of office etc), which is no doubt why there is a large collectors market for them.

Ironically while the nazi stuff was just for wearing the rest were all made and probably used for killing people. I couldn't tell you which I dislike more.

The large shells do make good doorstops though...

TTKW I disagree, and I think you're missing the point.

Nazi memorabilia are not "mindless tat" because they stand for something.

Something that is slightly more profound than making laws about what flags can and can't be sold (show me the law, btw).

Should it be allowed again to sell real shrunken heads as well? Would that be ethical?

Tulip - we were exactly the same a flag from the battlefield. I think this one was lost if it turns up we will be giving it to the Imperial War Museum.

eBay ban sale of this. I would be shocked to see it. Amazed he's so thick skinned and insensitive to be selling it openly and publicly like this.

Yanbu. It is most unsavoury.

Are Nazi flags/symbols not illegal in the UK? They are in many European countries.

I can't imagine that the 'memorabilia' was genuine. I really doubt that genuine Nazi artifacts would be sold from a car boot.

I think there is a place for historical artifacts, and that place is in a museum or official historical collections, such as university collections where they can be studied. I don't agree with destruction of the items, there is still important historical significance, regardless of how horrible the history was behind them. It's still important, not least because we never should forget. I think when you talk about something like Nazi history, it's different to talking about the atrocities committed during ancient history times. When there are people still alive for whom it is not 'history' but their own lives, then extra sensitivity must be taken.

Being fascinated by a particular period in history does not necessarily make someone a bad person. Wanting to bring back the past, forcing people to relive horrible acts of the past and glorifying the atrocities are what is wrong, not the study of such periods of history and historical figures and movements.

My response changed halfway through being written

Initially, I was going to say something about historically significant items blah blah blah, if 100% nazi then likely inappropriate

Then I thought about it. I'm living in the Middle East with many friends and colleagues from Syria and Iraq, one of whoms 3 brothers haven't been heard from for 3 years and he can only assume... How would I feel in 40, 50 years if I saw a car boot man selling ISIS flags, orange boiler suits, artefacts stolen from the museums? I'd want to hurt them, a lot. Never mind that it's shaping up to be a 'historically significant war'. I'd want to hurt the car boot man

perfect. Brilliant re ignoramuses. Love it.

In other European countries I believe this is illegal (as is denying the holocaust).

Collecting for historical reasons is fine, but a car boot is for casual buyers seems entirely mis-placed and offensive. Yes, there have been many massacres and evil deeds done since (Yugoslavia anyone?, and that's just for starters) but we all know that the Nazi stuff ended in world war and it wasn't just about opressing Jews, and that we all associate the symbols with oppression, fascism and hate. That's a pretty shit thing to have rammed in your face on a sunny Sunday, whetherits done under the auspices of personal freedom or not. It's also your personal freedom to,tell the guy to his face that you think he's inappropriate, and to suggest he gets his nasty stuff out of your face.

YANBU

Yanbu. I would find it shocking and more then unsensitve to see that at a car boot.

From a social history point of view whilst for those of us privileged with opportunities and good educations the second world war is indeed but a blink away, for many in the likely recruiting demographic for extremists it's before even their grandparents were born. It's a strange mix of being just within living memory and yet three generations away, a transition period if you like. I think that sadly time is dulling the immediate horrors that were perpetrated and that we may be fighting a losing battle to keep them in the forefront of people's minds.