To think DH is rushing things unrealistically?

[SpringInTheStep]

We've had over 2 weeks of 2 year old sleep regression.

We're still getting undisturbed sleep, but it's one hell of a job to get DC to actually go to sleep in the first place. It can take anything from 30 minutes to several hours.

A drag though it is, I'm grateful that we're getting our sleep, and all we're losing out on is our evenings, which is only spent cleaning or watching TV anyway, so no big loss in the big picture really.

But every time DH is present, he hurries it. Like today, DC was playing - but at least not crying - whilst I sat in the bedroom beside the bed.

After 15-20 minutes DH said it wasn't working and so it was time to push DC out in the pushchair and try to encourage sleep that way instead. I gave in as I am sick of fighting DH and trying to tell him to please be more patient.

Yesterday evening I asked DH to sit and talk to me on the stairs because that only took 10 minutes for DC I fall asleep the last 2 times we did that, which to my mind is brilliant progress. DH said its not normal to sit on the stairs and did a screwing-finger-into-side-of-head motion at me, implying I am somehow crazy to even consider it. He just can't (or won't) see the big picture and view it as short term pain for long term gain.

I'm getting pissed off with his attitude towards it and his failure to accept it will take a long time. Every night. Possibly for a few more weeks yet. And his inability to give it time is stressing me out more than the process of sitting with a child who refuses to sleep!

I think the problem is that DH wants to reintroduce pacifiers, which he believes was the cause of this problem in the first place. Technically it wasn't, as DC slept beautifully the first few nights until getting a sick bug 4/5 nights later, then it all went horribly wrong and has stayed that way. Perhaps it's coincidentally a 2 year old sleep regression - we might never know.

But dc's teeth are quite pronounced at the top, and two independent local dentists have strongly advised not returning to the pacifier because there is a strong possibility that it will cause permanent damage, even at 2 years old. When I said Dr Google suggests it's only a massive problem around the age of 4, I was told it's still a big risk, especially as we're already seeing visible signs of malocclusion, and they wouldn't suggest it's worth taking. My health visitor also reiterated this.

But, for as long as DH is sitting on the sidelines hankering after some pacifier reintroduction, I feel he will not get the patience game and it is doing my head in

Aibu?

MrsNextDoor
Well...I would scrap nap as others say but OP seems reluctant. Sometimes OP it's better to put up with a crying, slightly grumpy child in the day when you can distract him easily with trips to the park/games etc.

True, I am a little reluctant. Only because he displays signs of needing sleep, and without a doubt will fall asleep in the pushchair or car. Added to that, I have MS, which makes me awfully tired as the day goes on, and coping with a busy child as well as a fractious one doesn't appeal! If I have to, of course I will. But I'd rather explore every other avenue first.

ThinkIveBeenHacked

Id reduce the nap to 45mins (a sleepcycle so should be easier to rouse). Then start the bedtime routine dot on 6pm. Warm bath, into PJs, a story on the couch with a cup of milk and then into bed with another story. "Mummy is just going in her room to make the bed, off to sleep now" and leave.

Starting the sleep routine at 6pm, what time would you finish the routine?

I agree regarding the "Mummy's just off for a minute" scenario. It has worked a few times, so long as I don't stay away too long. I'm just not sure how all of this fits with my other DC, who needs sleep for school the next day and who is currently taking a back seat unfairly, if I am not careful.

He screams incessantly because he knows eventually it will be enough for you to return. This is habit that will be hard to break but needs breaking.

I think I'd agree more if he wasn't so desperately clingy in the daytime as well at the moment - also a new development.

I'm tackling that by taking him to ask many busy places as possible, to entice him away from me. So far so good, but its early days yet.

I really don't see what's wrong with the stairs thing. Some DC are anxious. It's nice for them to know that parents are still close by. Sad to think this could be dismissed as "playing up". It might look that way but it is a pretty big thing to be left all alone in the dark and quiet. Of course we know we would never totally leave them, but the fear of being left alone is instinctive, not rational.

Ten minutes is really not a lot I don't understand why you've had so much resistance to this.

Topseyt I was exactly the same, let them know the rules from the beginning and stick to them, not moving the goal posts every other night.

Topseyt
I am a meanie too.
I wouldn't say a meanie, just that it worked well for you.

If any of them tried it on at all at bedtime (most kids do so at some point) then I ignored them if I knew they weren't ill, and 9 times out of 10 they just gave up.

I would see it more as trying it on if; a) it hadn't started with genuine sickness, and b) didn't cause acute distress to a very (newly) clingy child.

Kewcumber
Try waking him from nap after 1.5 hours then make it 5 minutes early every day until its an hour.
I will give a reduction a go and see what happens.

WindMeUpAndLetMeGo
I would rather suffer the grumpy toddler in the day time than spend hours/weeks/months sorting a bedtime sleep.
I am a little afraid that I'd end up with both!
That would just about finish me I reckon.

Sorry did you say what time bedtime was?
Yes I start the routine 6:30-7pm, and it takes about an hour to do both children.

Denimwithdenim00
Mine was tea, bath, story, bed and then stay in bed quietly until sleep. No iffs or buts.
So was mine - until THIS! I suppose its caught me off guard a bit, as we've had no problems with sleep since 7 months old. It's come as a real shock!
I keep reiterating "sleep"...."shush!".... but I get "NO!" and "MUMMMMEEEEEEEEE" louder and loder as the night goes on.

BertieBotts
I really don't see what's wrong with the stairs thing. Some DC are anxious. It's nice for them to know that parents are still close by. Sad to think this could be dismissed as "playing up". It might look that way but it is a pretty big thing to be left all alone in the dark and quiet. Of course we know we would never totally leave them, but the fear of being left alone is instinctive, not rational.

I honestly believe you're right. I think he's genuinely terrified, which is why i couldn't close my heart off enough to do CIO. It felt as though it would be damaging, and then when I read articles saying that you shouldn't for a 2 year old as they are emotionally past CIO for separation anxiety, I gladly ditched the plan. It did occur to me to possibly leave a night light, but I don't think it's the dark because we're getting the summer evenings at the moment. I also don't think its the light, as I tried the foil on the windows for blackout blinds, and it made no difference.

Ten minutes is really not a lot I don't understand why you've had so much resistance to this.
I think that's why i felt so upset myself. I hoped he'd be pleased with a 10 minute plan, as that means we can get on as normal. I'd even have started the bedtime routine 10 minutes early to accommodate for any losses he might feel, but I somehow don't think that was his problem. He just kept saying "thats not normal!"

WindMeUpAndLetMeGo
Topseyt I was exactly the same, let them know the rules from the beginning and stick to them, not moving the goal posts every other night.

I don't feel thats a fair comment and I'll tell you why. I've made it clear I have established a good routine, right from the start. A routine that works for my 5 year old, and one that has always worked fine for my toddler... up until these last few weeks. Out of the blue, we now have problems. The sleep routine was not altered, but the problems started anyway.

Perhaps you're lucky enough to have never encountered this with your own? I know I didn't have this problem with my first DC.... with the SAME routine.

Another route...one which is opposite ALL that's been said (including my own advice) would be to take him into your room, lie in bed with him...and be comfortable! Take your laptop...accept that he's anxious or afraid and give him what he wants...his parent.

This is probably not at all what you want...but now and then...reversing everything can work. When he's asleep see if you can carry him to his own bed...or leave him there and slip out yourself. I co-sleep so it's perhaps easy for me to say this...I don't mind co sleeping with a large child...neither does DH mind that he sleeps in the spare room...he prefers it! We have intimate time out of bed...or when the children are at school/nursery

I have had plenty of sleep problems, they all go through it. We all have our ways of doing things, but was just saying that was mine. I left the room, didn't gradually remove myself etc

Start routine at 6, bed for half six. With a 45 min nap he will be ready for it.

I think I'd agree more if he wasn't so desperately clingy in the daytime as well at the moment - also a new development.

Which makes me even more sure that he's having a separation/permanence thing at the moment.

DS suffered this more than most due to his adoption. He isn;t sure when he can't see you that you are there.

try recording your voice reading a story as I suggested. I did the "I'm just going to the toilet", "I'm just going to get the washing out" "I'm just going to..."

Ha ha ha not necessarily - DS dropped a nap and two and no way would he have gone to sleep at 6.30pm! 7.30 at the earliest. (not that it matter either way)

I found that it was almost always very clear when they were trying it on from when they were ill.

Toddlerhood is a testing out of the boundaries time. That is what yours is doing I should think and that is why you need to reaffirm what the boundaries are, in no uncertain terms. Definitely no pushchair or any of the other baby stuff.

I remember my DD1 trying pretty much what you described. The shriek of "NO" "MUMMMEEE" and I was working full time at that point. She wasn't distressed, there wasn't even any fear in her voice, she was just loudly and persistently pushing my buttons. It followed a full day at work for me and nursery for her so I was knackered and totally lost my rag at her. She hadn't seen me that angry before. Not my finest hour and not what could be recommended, but somehow it worked and she never did it again.

By the time I had DD2 and then later DD3 I was way beyond any pandering and negotiating with children, not that I had been much into it anyway. It was all many years ago now (they range in age from 20 down to 12) and they do all seem to have survived.

Whatever your method, you will get there in the end. In time it will become a distant memory, though that doesn't seem possible just at this moment.

I also co-slept later but that was due to nightmares/anxieties.

If OP's Dh can;t strecth as far as a chat on teh stairs I can;t see him going for co-sleeping!

It's hard when you had a good routine and it suddenly just goes.
I think it's probably that he has more attention when he was ill and quite frankly enjoyed it and is pushing your mummy buttons to get you staying with him again.

You can see his method.

My advice is to be firm and let him know you man business but as I said before I am a toughie.

Keep x posting topseyt

I really don't grasp your DH's insistance that it's "not normal".....what a strange statement? Normal compared to what? He'd drive me round the bend before the toddler, to be fair.....

Good luck I'm following as my 2.5 year does this but as he's not in a cot I can't get him to stay in bed at all and if I try the putting him back in bed without eye contact he thinks it's a game and even puts his arms up so I can pick him up! Good luck!

CD player in bedroom. Not sure if this is a good idea but it worked for us. And I am very strict about things usually- no TV in room for DS until recently (he's now 14). He does still listen at bedtime, but has good knowledge of Greek myths, Just William, Jeeves and Wooster etc. etc. Loves reading too.

I think there are always painful periods and when they happen know our house I always flex to the child for a few nights in case they are unwell or anxious or something but then after 3-4 nights I put my foot down. It always works. You don't need to pushy foot around a child that used to sleep. You can be soft for a bit but don't lose your confidence. If they did it before they are well able to do it again. I have a few rules with bedtime. No sitting beside the cot. No excessive rocking or cradling. No giving in to whinging (but always respond to hysterical crying). Don't do anything that totally ruins my evening long term (om totally fine with missing some evenings here and there when things don't go to plan sometimes I often find myself beside that arguing with myself that it would be easier to stay there longer just tonight and no way will he/she not roar the moment I get up but I make myself so it and often am so surprised and how successful it is. That reminds me that we are responsible for the boundaries and have to stay confident and not slowly but surely let them control us and our precious little adult time.

I'm with your DH. He sounds frustrated and not into the bedtime style you feel you need to do. Challah your toddler to get on with it. You might be surprised and how he manages once he realises he isn't holding all the strings anymore.

So sorry for all the typos. ...

I think it is a fairly normal stage. DD2 has always been a good sleeper though so when she suddenly started to get upset being left on her own I just stayed with her holding her hand until she was fairly drowsy and then told her I needed the bathroom. It lasted maybe 2-3 weeks on odd nights and then she was fine again
DD1 was an entirely different kettle of fish. I could recite the Gruffalo in my sleep by the time she was 2.5 as I mostly recited it in the dark from the floor beside her cot. Eventually when we were fairly sure it wasn't teeth and illness we just went with a Gina Ford style method if memory serves.

Personally, I wouldn't drop the day time naps. No more than 1.5 hours probably but mine go to bed a little later at 7.30 so you need to figure out what works for you.

Your husband is being a cock though. Does he know how much orthodontics cost for one?

I wouldn't try and get a two year old to nap. No wonder you are having issues at night. At his age, he needs between 10 and 12 hours sleep in every 24. If he is taking a two hour nap then he isn't tired. You need to decide on a routine and stick to it. With my dd we did rapid return but she was younger. She is 3.5 now and we tell her that we will come back in 5 minutes but there must be no shouting, getting out of bed or crying. After 5 minutes we go back in and give her a kiss and cuddle. We've never had to go in more than 3 times.

Denim, we obviously have similar methods. Two halves of the same person. I identify with your posts.

It seems that the toddler is trying to hold the strings here. Firmness total rigidity is needed. He knows exactly what he is doing. He has to back down. No iffing or butting. No sitting in his room or on the stairs talking while he plays. That is what he wants OP, and he has you dancing to his tune at the moment.

It might take a few nights of being firm totally rigid and inflexible about the boundaries, but it is necessary. Mine were just plonked unceremoniously back into bed if necessary, told that I didn't want to hear another peep, and then left.

I guess by today's standards I was just a horrid, mean mum, but I don't care. It worked. Anything else would have driven me round the bend.

I don't understand the insistence about naps. Some adults only need 6hrs sleep, some with 9. There's an even bigger variance among toddlers.

OP has said she doesn't think the nap is the problem...so maybe it isn't!

I stay upstairs until mine are asleep. We used to live in a flat so we had no choice but to stay close, now I do it partly out of habit but partly because it feels right to me. I think we forget that lots of adults struggle to wind down for sleep or struggle to get back to sleep in the night, why do we expect all children to be able to.