To think DH is rushing things unrealistically?

[SpringInTheStep]

We've had over 2 weeks of 2 year old sleep regression.

We're still getting undisturbed sleep, but it's one hell of a job to get DC to actually go to sleep in the first place. It can take anything from 30 minutes to several hours.

A drag though it is, I'm grateful that we're getting our sleep, and all we're losing out on is our evenings, which is only spent cleaning or watching TV anyway, so no big loss in the big picture really.

But every time DH is present, he hurries it. Like today, DC was playing - but at least not crying - whilst I sat in the bedroom beside the bed.

After 15-20 minutes DH said it wasn't working and so it was time to push DC out in the pushchair and try to encourage sleep that way instead. I gave in as I am sick of fighting DH and trying to tell him to please be more patient.

Yesterday evening I asked DH to sit and talk to me on the stairs because that only took 10 minutes for DC I fall asleep the last 2 times we did that, which to my mind is brilliant progress. DH said its not normal to sit on the stairs and did a screwing-finger-into-side-of-head motion at me, implying I am somehow crazy to even consider it. He just can't (or won't) see the big picture and view it as short term pain for long term gain.

I'm getting pissed off with his attitude towards it and his failure to accept it will take a long time. Every night. Possibly for a few more weeks yet. And his inability to give it time is stressing me out more than the process of sitting with a child who refuses to sleep!

I think the problem is that DH wants to reintroduce pacifiers, which he believes was the cause of this problem in the first place. Technically it wasn't, as DC slept beautifully the first few nights until getting a sick bug 4/5 nights later, then it all went horribly wrong and has stayed that way. Perhaps it's coincidentally a 2 year old sleep regression - we might never know.

But dc's teeth are quite pronounced at the top, and two independent local dentists have strongly advised not returning to the pacifier because there is a strong possibility that it will cause permanent damage, even at 2 years old. When I said Dr Google suggests it's only a massive problem around the age of 4, I was told it's still a big risk, especially as we're already seeing visible signs of malocclusion, and they wouldn't suggest it's worth taking. My health visitor also reiterated this.

But, for as long as DH is sitting on the sidelines hankering after some pacifier reintroduction, I feel he will not get the patience game and it is doing my head in

Aibu?

MrsNextDoor

"As for the nap...what time is he having that? Mine both dropped theirs at around 18 months and yes, they got a bit grumpy...but it DID help at bedtime..."

I did think the same, but when we ditched naps it was hell on earth! ITs clear its too early for that. The nap is always after lunch and usually lasts 1.5-2 hours.

"my sneaky plan was to go down a few steps every night until we're at the bottom of the stairs, and then maybe find the 10 minutes becomes 5, and then nothing."

Sounds like a version of the well-accepted method called "gradual retreat". You have fantastic instincts IMO.

Get your DH to look it up and apologise for being a dick about it.

MrsNextDoor

"Well...no more chair sitting OP....get your chair and laptop outside his room...not where he can see you but where he can hear you. Settle in...make DH bring you tea and cake."

I did find this worked once, when I was sorting laundry outside the open bedroom door. But when I tried it again, it was no good, and so thats when I started talking to DH, which took 10 minutes to settle. Thats why we tried the talking at the top of the stairs again, and found it worked again.

The stair plan is great. Anything which involves you not in the bedroom is a huge step when this happens. I second that you need to agree a routine/plan and stick to it.

I read sitting on the stairs as a type of gradual withdrawal and I certainly used that with effect on DS. ALso if he dozed of with you two talking within earshot he may be strggle with separation/permanency issues and hearing you talk helps that.

Try a talking book on at bed time or record yourself reading a story.

wigglylines
"Sounds like a version of the well-accepted method called "gradual retreat". You have fantastic instincts IMO."

Thank you for that. It's so easy to doubt yourself when someone else is so strongly against your idea!

"DH said its not normal to sit on the stairs and did a screwing-finger-into-side-of-head motion at me, implying I am somehow crazy to even consider it." Umm that would be a deal breaker for me if a partner ever did a gesture like that to me. Hugely disrespectful and dismissive. And the fact that you say he can do this type of thing when you disagree reinforces that. I'd say therefore the problem goes deeper than sleep training.

I'd also say that losing sleep during the night, regularly, is a form of torture. Losing part of your evening is an inconvenience. You seem to be approaching this from a direction of providing some consistency and that seems perfectly sensible to overcome what is basically in the scheme of things a short term problem. Certainly not warranting nasty hand signals.

Kewcumber
"Try a talking book on at bed time or record yourself reading a story."

Thank you. Anything is worth a go. I'd probably stand on my head it that worked!

Could you not shorten his nap to maybe an hour? 2 hours is quite along time, what time does he go to bed,

scallopsrgreat
"I'd also say that losing sleep during the night, regularly, is a form of torture. Losing part of your evening is an inconvenience."

I said those exact words to him last night! But he was in the digging-heels-in mode, and there was no manoeuvre. He said today that his needs to change his expectations, but then promptly started undermining it all after just 15-20 minutes. Some days I seriously prefer his work days!

Yes 2 hours too long. I'd try to reduce it to 45 minutes but I'm mean.

WindMeUpAndLetMeGo
Could you not shorten his nap to maybe an hour? 2 hours is quite along time, what time does he go to bed

I could wake him, the last time I tried he sobbed, and was crotchety the rest of the day, but ordinarily he's always slept from 7:30-8pm (I start the routine about 6:30-7), and he wakes about 6-7am.

YANBU. I'm not going to get into a debate over controlled crying vs gradual withdrawal, and you didn't ask that anyway - the issue seems to me to be that your DH wants to go down the easy routes (pushchair and dummy) and there are valid reasons against both of those. I've also had these conversations with my DH but he's conceded I was right and that we did have to accept we may have a few weeks of no evenings to sort sleep issues out - it's better in the long run, whichever method you use. FWIW your gradual withdrawal method sounds like it's having some success and I think it's worth sticking with.

Mrs I would scrap the nap altogether, so I guess I'm even meaner!

PS audio stories definitely worth a try though - we use them with our five year old (and have done for a couple of years) as he has difficulty winding down.

I would ditch the nap & get him out & about in the afternoon. Tire him out completely, then bath, milk or a drink and a bed time story, then leave room.
Exactly same routine for a few days, same story as well is what worked with my DS.
Actually used to read a book called "I dreamed I was an astronaut" it was quite short & had an almost sing song rhythm to it, I still know it off by heart.
Good luck, it's not easy.

OP you have my sympathy, I have a 2yr old who has been an awful sleeper and is only recently improving.

That said we stuck to gentle methods because that's what felt right for our family.

We stay in room with DS until he falls asleep. Takes about twenty minutes after story, he faffs about a bit to wind down but goes off and is now sleeping through most nights. I don't mind that time with him (neither does his Dad). He feels safe and secure going to sleep and I believe that's why he sleeps through now.

However we did need to cut nap to 1hr otherwise he just wasn't ready to sleep until 9 or later. He's getting better at being woken up. If we get outdoors he comes to quicker and it stops the grumps.

We also have a very dark room. This minimises faffing and means he doesn't get out of bed.
Your stair idea sounds good, a nice method of gradual retreat.
Be assured your child's sleep is WELL within the realms of normal.
Your partner was very disrespectful to you and I think he has unrealistic ideas about toddler sleep.
Good luck to you.

I don't necessarily agree that it's time to cut the nap, my DS still slept for a couple of hours up to 4 years old, however that meant he had to be in bed by 12.30 for that to work so he had enough afternoon time to also get tired. What time are you putting him up? Also, where is he napping? Cot or buggy?

Well...I would scrap nap as others say but OP seems reluctant. Sometimes OP it's better to put up with a crying, slightly grumpy child in the day when you can distract him easily with trips to the park/games etc.

Id reduce the nap to 45mins (a sleepcycle so should be easier to rouse). Then start the bedtime routine dot on 6pm. Warm bath, into PJs, a story on the couch with a cup of milk and then into bed with another story. "Mummy is just going in her room to make the bed, off to sleep now" and leave.

He screams incessantly because he knows eventually it will be enough for you to return. This is habit that will be hard to break but needs breaking.

RumbleMum
FWIW your gradual withdrawal method sounds like it's having some success and I think it's worth sticking with.

Thank you, I wish DH shared your view! But nevertheless, it helps strengthen my resolve to hear it from independent viewpoints. Thanks also for your audio stories experience. It definitely would be worth a try. Anything is worth a try!

WindMeUpAndLetMeGo
Mrs I would scrap the nap altogether, so I guess I'm even meaner!
I am not so sure I view it as mean to the child as much as to the parent, who has to put up with an excessively busy as well as grumpy toddler!

FannyFifer
I would ditch the nap & get him out & about in the afternoon. Tire him out completely, then bath, milk or a drink and a bed time story, then leave room. I don't understand it though, he yawns so much all through teatime. He really does seem ready for bed when it comes. Lots of eye rubbing etc.

EmmaLL25

That said we stuck to gentle methods because that's what felt right for our family.

Same with us. We tried just a short CIO and it was horrendous. It took ages for the heaving sobs to calm down, he honestly was so distressed.

However we did need to cut nap to 1hr otherwise he just wasn't ready to sleep until 9 or later. He's getting better at being woken up. If we get outdoors he comes to quicker and it stops the grumps.
Good tip! Both my kids are better outdoors as am I!

minibmw2010
I don't necessarily agree that it's time to cut the nap, my DS still slept for a couple of hours up to 4 years old, however that meant he had to be in bed by 12.30 for that to work so he had enough afternoon time to also get tired. What time are you putting him up? Also, where is he napping? Cot or buggy?

I always put him to sleep when he sounds sleepy. Rubbing eyes, yawning, moaning over every little thing. Usually it's after lunch, and that can be anytime after 11:30-12:30pm. He always sleeps in his cotbed, for naps as well as night time, although if we were in the car or pushchair (day out somewhere) he definitely would fall asleep.

I am a meanie too. I didn't allow my toddlers to nap in the afternoons, and by two they were beginning to do away with daytime naps altogether, especially once they started pre-school in the mornings. They would get knackered, but I just pushed on through it and in the evening they usually settled in minutes.

If any of them tried it on at all at bedtime (most kids do so at some point) then I ignored them if I knew they weren't ill, and 9 times out of 10 they just gave up. Sometimes it would be necessary to propel one of them back into bed. I would do that firmly, telling them that it was bedtime, and that I didn't expect to hear another peep out of them until morning. I never stayed in their rooms. I never sat on the stairs either, just went off and did whatever I had planned for the rest of the evening.

I guess I am just in the cold-turkey school of parenting. It worked for me, but you will find a way that works for you.

Try waking him from nap after 1.5 hours then make it 5 minutes early every day until its an hour.

My DS also dropped a nap at 2. Hard to tell if he still needs, it some do some don;t.

I would rather suffer the grumpy toddler in the day time than spend hours/weeks/months sorting a bedtime sleep.

I did it with all my 3, they soon adjusted.

Sorry did you say what time bedtime was?

I think your op was disrespectful though op. I do see your plan and method here. Your dh is certainly wrong about the dummy and the pushchair here.

I was a but harder than you as my 4 were close together and I needed my evenings so bed time routines were carved in stone. afraid the gentle route seemed to prolong the agony.

Mine was tea, bath, story, bed and then stay in bed quietly until sleep. No iffs or buts.

Good luck it's hard though