Should SIL be forced to bring DD to graveyard?

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Posting on behalf of my SIL, my DH's brother's wife. When BIL was a toddler and DH wasn't born PIL had a stillborn DS and of course after he was buried they visited his grave with BIL and then DH, this tradition has continued until the present day. SIL has just had her first DD and PIL want her and the baby to start coming up to visit the grave with them, BIL and DH.

The problem is SIL doesn't feel comfortable bringing her DD. her reasons are that she doesn't feel comfortable enmeshing her DD in this tradition as she feels it is spreading and sharing the grieving process to a baby and isn't needed. She doesn't mind if DD is told about her uncle or anything else, she's just not comfortable with the tradition itself for children. BIL wants to bring his DD to please his PILs as he doesn't really care personally if his DD is brought so SIL feels backed into a corner and feels like she is being made to feel guilty.

Is she BU?

I should have put a trigger warning on this for PP's, my apologies for anyone who has lost a child or if anyone finds this upsetting.

To answer PP's on a new tradition idea we've tried that suggestion, that instead of bringing the children to the grave that we go out for lunch after but PIL's don't want that. My DH and I don't feel comfortable bringing the children there and my DH has explained this. SIL feels the same way and finds it morbid to bring children to the grave. BIL understands this but wants to please MIL.

Dixie, SIL is quiet and mousy by nature, she doesn't speak her mind and has very little confidence so MIL steam rolls over her.

I can't believe visiting the grave of your child once a year can be described as "morbid" characterized by an abnormal and unhealthy interest in disturbing and unpleasant subjects, especially death and disease
It can be very comforting to take a new baby to a grave for the first time.
You haven't said if this is local to your SIL OP.
I don't see the problem with taking children to a graveyard, I often took mine to DS2' grave. I do think the PILS would be unreasonable to expect the GDCS to attend every year though.
If they coped with you saying No, OP, they'll obviously cope if SIL does.

Star, SIL understands that it means a lot to them but she still feels it morbid to want to bring the children there, even if her DD doesn't understand the tradition would continue until she does and SIL doesn't want that as she feels it's sharing the grief with the children.

It's totally fair enough and understandable that your PIL still go, and probably always will.

It's not reasonable at all to force new family members (or existing ones) to go too.

Too late for your bloody 'trigger warning' OP, I've already read your very upsetting description of taking children to a graveyard. Mine don't appear too traumatised by me being 'morbid' enough to take them to their brother's grave with me.
Thanks for that.

Once a year wouldn't be a problem for me and I would go along with it.
A case of give and take . It's not harming anyone but helping PIL.

If it was every week I would think differently but once a year isn't a problem.

Miss, must have skipped over that question. We live in a small village but the graveyard is not our local one, it is further out about two hours drive in a bigger more forested graveyard. They coped with me saying no because DH didn't feel comfortable sharing that grief with his children when there was no need just like SIL. BIL however wants to please MIL and as I've said before SIL can't stand up for herself and refuse them.

I don't think anyone should be forced to visit a grave. Also I can't imagine how awful it would be to visit my loved one's grave with people who didn't want to be there.

To be clear, I don't think visiting the grave annually to mark the anniversary is morbid.
I think trying to make their dils and grandchildren go as well and viewing their own personal grief as wider family outing material, is. Imo.

A very good point Ellie.

Miss, I apologized for the late trigger warning, I was thoughtless with SIL beside me wanting opinions yes but I myself didn't describe this as morbid, I said this was how my SIL and DH felt. I in no way implied that it harmed anyone's DC just that my SIL was no comfortable with it. So I'm sorry if it has made you feel this way, I'll ask for the title to be edited to include the trigger warning.

I don't think that visiting a grave is in any way morbid for children.
However, I think that if the adults present are going to be getting very upset then young children may find it distressing to see their DGM etc. crying for reasons they do not understand. Especially when stillbirth is a concept that is so hard to explain.
My DCs have visited the graves of various family members, but in the context of understanding who these people are, seeing photos, hearing stories about them. This would be hard to do in these particular circumstances.

I would suggest that the DCs don't get involved in the annual pilgrimage until they are old enough to understand. And I think that your SIL has to stick to her position if she feels strongly (and it sounds like she does) about this.

I used to go with my Grandmother to visit her DD's grave twice a week as a young girl, one of my earliest memories. My GM was grieving throughout my childhood as I was born six months after her DD died. I also spent a lot of time with GM as parents were working. She talked about her DD almost constantly and I remember it having a huge effect on me. I don't think my situation was over healthy to be honest but it was twice a week. As a result it is not so much the visiting the grave that could be an issue it is how much they talk about their loss. My own experience would mean I would shield a child as much as possible and not in any way let it colour their own childhood. Just my view based on personal experience.

SiL isn't being unreasonable. PIL are being unreasonable if they put any kind of pressure on or express annoyance in any way and BiL needs to deal with this since it's his parents: he IBU and cowardly to side with them and pressure SIL to appeaese his parents.

I didn't say it was morbid to visit your child's grave (or take your children to see a sibling's grave). I said that this situation seemed a bit morbid, requiring a family member to take their new baby to the grave of a by-marriage relative and to expect this to become a tradition.

It's a very small thing for your SIL (and you) to do that could help to bring a lot of comfort to someone who will have felt a pain that I hope neither of you ever have to experience. It seems a bit selfish to me not to do such a small thing for a close family member, and if your SILs DH is ok with it, then he should be allowed to take his child. Even if it does make SIL uncomfortable, she didn't have her baby in isolation and her fathers families traditions are just as important as her own.

I don't think it's morbid, what is morbid is that so many people go out of their way to avoid anything death related, making it into something so much worse than it already is. I think it's good for children to be taught about these facts of life when they are still young, that way when they are bereaved in some way it's not such a shock, they and they can ask questions and have them answered which doesn't always happen as well as it could when there is a family death and emotions are running high.

Can your DH have a brotherly word with BIL about just keeping it to themselves and PIL?

I don't think your SIL IBU.
I do think BIL/her DH has the right to take his DD if he wants to. SIL is certainly entitled to decline as its not a direct relation to her.

I don't think a consensus on AIBU is really going to help. The bottom line is that people grieve, deal with death and bereavement in completely different ways...

I personally wouldn't bring children into this tradition -even though I have taken a toddler to a funeral when my grandmother died. It just seems so long ago, and I think children need a gentle introduction to death and dying understanding first that animals die, that people die when they get old, not starting with death of a baby, and this very longstanding ritual. Fully appreciate that other people will feel differently. I took my 3 year old to a funeral (my grandmother) last year and there were very mixed opinions about my doing so.

Perhaps a respectful comment about allowing personal responses and approaches is needed, with a clear statement that you/SIL does not feel that it is the right time to bring DC into this, but they will be asked if they wish to come when they are older and able to understand.

I wouldn't go taking a baby if I knew I wouldn't want them there when they are 2, 3, 5 etc...as it's just delaying the discussion really.

I think your SIL IBU. This is a once a year visit and if I understand correctly, her husband wants to attend with their baby dd. She does not have to go (although that would be nice if her) but if her dh wants to take their dc then of course that is reasonable of him. There is nothing wrong with exposing her to the fact she had an uncle who died very young. I really don't understand the objection as it is only once per year.

My DH ha an uncle buried in a foreign cemetery following military service.

Due to the distance involved, cost of getting there and all practicalities visits to the grave have been far from regular over the years, but there is a sort of family tradition that any of us who go on holiday to that country (also now a tourist hotspot) take a day out to go and lay flowers. A "gone but never forgotten" type of gesture. We are going this year.

I don't think your PIL are being unreasonable, but then nor is your SIL. The baby is very young, and SIL perhaps barely recovered from the birth, so I might try suggesting that it might work better when the child is of an age to understand properly. I can also understand how SIL possibly feels awkward at being an observer to the grief of another family. It might feel very voyeuristic to her, so she would prefer to stay more in the background. Would your PIL understand that though?

Failing all of that though, I would agree with others that her husband could take the baby. The baby will be unaffected and won't have a clue what is going on anyway.

I do think this is an unusual tradition , but then I am a private person and would prefer to visit a grave alone . I do think expecting a child whose father wasn't even born when this child died to be able to empathise to be a very high expectation.

But most of all I think it is unreasonable to expect a mother of a one week old baby to drive two hours to take the baby to a graveside . I am not even sure a one week old should be in the car that long