Should we scale it back a bit?

[WLTMEET]

Ok before I start, I want to say first off that is isn't a stealth boast, I'm not trying to upset anyone.

Your poor DD, she's not far off an age when she's going to start refusing to go to visit her dad if he continues to make her feel bad about being richer than her half-siblings, which means she'll lose her relationship with them. I might well have a word with him that she says he's constantly going on about how fun doesn't have to cost and making her feel bad about enjoying the paid for activities. That he might not be constantly making comments, but obviously the comments he has made have made an impression on DD if that's what she's saying and you are worried she's getting upset rather than having fun with her half-siblings.

He probably won't change his behaviour, but then at least you've tried.

Re the kids clubs, I would point out to your DD that when her dad goes away with his other 5 DCs, they have each other to play with, but when she goes away with just you and DP there's no other children, so you chose somewhere with a kids club so that she'd have other children to play with during the day.

Thanks all. I know you are right. Just wish I wouldn't let it get to me so much, I feel for my dd very much. I've told him to wind his neck in, he denies jealousy and comes out with the most sickly statements like he's far 'richer' than me because he chose to bathe in the love of a beautiful family, unlike myself who is too concerned with holidays to appreciate children.

He's like one of those annoying fuckers who decide for example who prefer to save up for a new bathroom rather than eat out or go on holiday, but then berate people who go on holiday for being 'frivolous' . He's the type to have thousands in savings and then slag off people who prefer to spend their money while they're alive. He has very funny ideas on moral and immoral ways to spend your own money.

He sounds tiresome.

Has he found Jesus since you broke up, or was he always a sanctimonious arse?

I'd rip him a new one too. And point out what his comments are teaching his daughter and ask him if these are the "family values" he's trying to I still in her? Also ask him if he has not yet learned that you can't fool kids - they can see the double standards, hypocrisy, etc between what he preaches and practices.

instill not I still

With respect there is nothing wrong with either the saving argument or the spending argument. There are moral and practical arguments to both. Mixing it it in with some of the more irrational stuff he is saying is less likely to enable her to question her father for herself

Which is why I wouldn't try to argue it out with you daughter but ask her she thinks the benefits and disadvantages to all sides are for her.

It would be nice to think you could discuss this amicably - tough I appreciate that may be impossible!

However if you could start out by telling him you really appreciate that he and DD have such a good relationship, how great it is for her to have all the little sibs and how you remind her of this, how important it is to you as well that she does not feel/act 'superior', but that it will all be a lot easier for DD if he doesn't say snidey/critical things to her, you would hate him to damage their relationship which is so precious to her (as PPs have pointed out, you'd hate him to drive her away from him) - might that wake him up a bit?

Just a thought.

THOUGH I appreciate...

oh dear, my parents can be like that - if anyone spends money on anything they wouldn't, its a sign that they are wasteful and a 'lesser' person. Saving money and not being 'frivilous' is a disirable trait. They will put saving money above all else, they have significant more money coming in each month than they are spending in retirement, yet will get a crossing to France at 6am meaning needing to be up in the middle of the night rather than 11am that would mean getting up at a normal hour in order to save £40... I spent years as an adult hiding how I spent my own money - including suggesting I had plastic flowers at my wedding (that DH and I were paying for ourselves, without borrowing!) rather than fresh in order to save a few quid.

It's draining dealing with people like this, because they think they are morally right and can't accept they might be at fault. They place no value on experience and comfort.

Your DD will learn to hide her life from her dad. She'll learn that he doesn't consider things she enjoys as having value. She'll learn she can have more fun without him about sucking the joy from things.

I'm giggling at some of these comments, especially finding jesus!
I'm all for people choosing to live as they please. My DP and I aren't savers, prefer to live in the now and could probably come a cropper for such a lax attitude to the future. However I song slate him for being as he is. I think he's incredibly boring if I'm honest but I voice to those opinions only to myself and DP. I wouldn't dream of saying anything to my dd

I think I'd tell him to stop making such nasty comments to his daughter. Say that you have no wish to hear from him unless it directly concerns contact between him and your DD, and that his opinions on how you spend your time and money mean nothing to you and therefore you will no longer listen to his jealous spiteful bile.

Have you posted about this before?

Oh yes dinosaur. You've described him to a tee. A real joy thief. Unless of course he's spring money on something he deems worthy. Funny enough, I used to hide clothes and makeup from him because he berated me, even when I was just a young woman with no responsibilities to speak of and paid with my own money. I can't believe I used to hide it. I even remember buying myself a £30 watch once and lying and saying my dad bought it. That was right at the beginning of our relationship- he was actually pouring scorn on my spending right from the start. I should have ran for the hills.

Her dad sounds awful and driven by jealously. Don't let him impact on your lifestyle at all.

What I would say, is having lived with someone like this, there is a tendancy to 'rebel' and spend, I'm now getting better at saving again - watch yourself that you've not gone too far the other way!

From what you've said, I think there's little point talking to him, he won't change because he thinks his way is more moral and you are inferior. He can't stop himself making snide comments, because it's important to him to demonstrate how much better he is than you to DD. Even if it upsets her, even if it involves telling her things she enjoys are wrong . If he's fully of the impression he's superior, then telling him that DD is hiding what expensive things she's doing from him won't be viewed as a bad thing, he'll interpret that as DD realising her expensive hobbies are shameful and she's right to be embarrassed to talk about them.

Carry on as you are, don't pass judgement on the things she does with her dad, leave it and see what she decides as she grows up.

(although perhaps make sure you do have some savings of your own, don't 'rebel' from his way too much and leave yourself vunerable financially!)

I'm sorry Dinosaurs Roar, but I find that attitude remarkably disrespectful.

It's easy to deride savers for the value brands, not sale bargains and the such like. But if your spend and you do come a cropper, the value of saving is self evident.

The right attitude is somewhere between the two.

But taking sides in front of a DD who may ultimately see more value in spending than saving is only going to cause more upset and heartache for the DD.

Therein lies the OP's problem. Your DD is going to be experiencing both. She may well find value where you do not, you may even find some of what she says causes you to rethink what you do. That can be the case even if your ex is a scumbag. But by allowing her to think though the pros and cons from her perspective, and with the acceptance that everyone is different and different places have value, your going to ease the transition between the two houses whilst at the same time allowing her to build her own moral compass.

You're so right! I do save for my dd but need to be a bit more sensible for our retirement as well!

He sounds a bit like my ILs. They were miserable. So miserable in fact that their daughters went to live on the other side of the world as soon as they were old enough. Never anything nice. Never anything fun - unless it was free and involved sharing an ice-cream on a cold beach. Never anything much to look forward to. Everything had to be so shared and worn and worthy.

Enjoy yourselves and let your dd enjoy herself too. Children need to experience nice things to make them want to work hard to get nice things for themselves one day. Spoilt isn't about what children have it's about their attitude of mind and children with very little can still have a poor attitude and be spoilt.

Don't scale it back. He is being a complete arse. It makes me angry that he is prepared to make your daughter feel so uncomfortable just to try and have a dig at you and make himself feel better than you. Dickhead.

Yeah it's all the moralising about it that gets my goat and the flowery sickly way he describes the richness of his life compared to the 'poverty of love' that I'm experiencing in my child free state.

Yes he actually said that....

My kids are very young, so I may have this wrong - but if her siblings are younger, would they even realise that the lifestyle difference is about money? Eg No, we cant go to the cinema, dc 4 and 6 are too young. we want to be outside in rge sunshine. Or, its someone elses turn to choose today . oh, we dont want to travel all that way for a holiday but dd1s mum does, i hope dd1 can send us a postcard (tangent about stamps)
Isnt that how most people would deal with it? Kids only realise about money if you tell them - clearly you aee not in a position to do this.
If you scale back and miss a holiday he wont care. You will still do something to invite comment!

rightly or wrongly that is what he believes.

So rightly or wrongly if your DD has contact with her father she will listen to what he says because he is her Dad.

What you need her to do is take the next thought steps out herself, without you needing to disparage her dad's point of view.

the only reason you need to scale back is to provide a rainy day fund for yourselves. don't tell the ex though.

WLTMEET, I have Sooooooooooooooo much to say on this thread I'm wondering if I should n/c.

We also only have 1 DC (although we are still together) but we used to be in a situation where we had quite a lot of money (a high earning job). We made a lifestyle choice 2 - 3 years ago, and now we have a lot less money. Enough, but a lot less.

Back when we had lots, we did nice things too. We often had 3 holidays a year. At the moment we're still managing one, but the savings are dwindling, so don't know if we're going to manage that in a year or two's time.

I should say that when we were relatively wealthy, we did do lots of free stuff - we went to the park loads and rode our bikes and went for walks, etc. Having money doesn't stop you doing any of those fun things. And one of our holidays was often camping (i.e. cheap) because we like camping

Where your ex does win hands down is with the companionship his multiple children will have. And lessons in teamwork, getting along with people, a strong network, shared experience, etc. He "wins" that one, you lose. LUCKILY your dd gets the advantage of experiencing it, albeit slightly at the periphery.

You win at the all the disposable income goes on her, good individual attention, treats, and her being prioritized.

At this point it's all win-win for your dd. (if galling for you and your ex).

We also used to be foster parents, and had children for 'relief' which generally meant a child we got to know well coming to us for 1 weekend a month for the medium - long term. We also did occasional emergencies, where we'd have a kid for a short period of time at v short notice (usually because they'd been removed from birth parents) for a short period while a more permanent home was found for them.
DD was 5 when we started (btw - we did it to give her some of the sibling experience which we were so lacking). OMG... how my toes used to curl when she first met them.... chatter, chatter, chatter and EVERYTHING totally inappropriate "hello. We've just been to Disneyland Paris, have you been to Disneyland Paris?" [we only went the once!!!] to some deprived poor sod who'd never been anywhere.
I soon learned to tell myself to stfu. She got them talking EVERY SINGLE TIME. Even these poor, damaged, traumatised kids. We only had them (the emergency ones) 48 hours or so, and she got them to open up and talk just by relentlessly telling them about herself and asking questions of them. And once she'd done that, we could start to develop a relationship with them. So on the one side I get your ex hating her talking about what she's been up to and what her plans are. But I also no it's done with no malice or sense of boasting.

From your later posts, it sounds like even if you'd just had the one and stayed together, your lifestyle would be very different to what it is now.

Your dd will soon be at an age to realize that your ex is a joyless arse. But even so, he will be giving her experiences you can't with a large family, and that's all to the good.

And yes - my dd is desperate for friends, and gets VERY bored with her boring old parents, so she LOVES a holiday club. although when she was younger and had no choice but to go she wasn't as keen (but, unfortunately, we both had to work at the time). And NOW she loves it.

YNBU, he is. Hold your head up high and carry on!

Toffee - you misunderstand, its not sensible saving that I'm deriding, it's the saving above all else - at the point it become rediculous - my parents are a perfect example, they are pensioners, and are at the stage where they have £3k more than they spend coming in each month, enough savings to put them both through care homes for 10 years each and a rental property with no mortgage on it, but still will get up in the middle of the night when travelling to France to save £40, because it's not about needing the money, it's about valuing saving over all other experiences/considerations.

It's also not teaching DCs healthy spending patterns, just not valuing anything that costs, you aren't teaching them to allow themselves treats but to budget for them, you are encouraging extreme not spending and by treating anyone who spends any more as being wasteful, you aren't teaching the difference between "saving for a rainy day but enjoying treats within your budget". Children of people like this do tend to go through a crazy spending phase when they have their own income, some learn a sensible balance between spending and saving, some don't. (Bit like those DCs who's parents ban all sugar and then they go off to uni and sit there eating a whole packet of biscuits in one go as they've never been shown balance, it's all or nothing)