To have reported the shouty self-appointed piano police to the actual police?

[PeppermintCrayon]

I am half-expecting to be told I'm being U for posting a thread of the "please validate this thing I already did!" variety...

Recently I was at St Pancras Station. There are several pianos for public use there. They're a bit knackered; one of them has a few keys that don't work.

Some kids were playing one of the pianos, about eight or nine maybe. They were having a fun trying to play different tunes. They were banging the keys quite hard. A man of maybe 55, 60, suddenly appeared and started yelling: "WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK YOU'RE DOING, YOU NEVER BANG A PIANO."

I went over and said I didn't think yelling at children was very nice and that these kids probably didn't have a piano at home and did he want to put them off music? He started huffing and puffing about how the pianos had to be tuned because of people messing about. I said perhaps he could have said: "Look, this is how you play a piano," and explained nicely instead of yelling. He then started yelling at me.

He then went back to sitting at a nearby cafe table glowering at anyone who went near the pianos, so I went and found a transport policeman and told him this man had been shouting at children for playing the piano and he went to have a word.

I don't think I was being U, but...

"Banging at the piano is not playing the piano. It's showing a lack of respect for public property that's meant to be shared."

Of course they were playing the piano. Bashing away trying to pick out a tune, having fun, learning about making loud noises - that's still playing the piano. Unless you think nobody should play the pianos unless they're accomplished pianists, or children "respectfully" playing Three Blind Mice as quietly as possible. My toddler loves walloping away on the keys making noise, should I be smacking his little hand away and telling him NO! WE DON'T BASH THE PIANO! DISRESPECTFUL TO THE PIANO! WILL BREAK THE PIANO! (even though it won't) Or should I have told off my late piano teacher for her occasional rip-roaring Jerry Lewis style numbers she'd be cajoled into doing at parties? "Frances! You're hitting the piano too hard! It's shaking! The disrespect!"

Seriously, as several people have pointed out upthread, the likelihood of the children "damaging the public property" by playing heavily is vanishingly small, they're far more likely to be put out of tune by the fact that they're in a train station. If they'd been going at it with an axe, obviously, that would be different. I suspect the main problem was that they were being noisy, but it sounded better to dress it up as "respect for public property".

i suggest you watch the next piece of piano playing after this bit

i imagine he's banging those keys harder than the 8yo!

You know, I'm fine with people disagreeing in their opinions. But I'm getting really cheesed off with people insisting the policeman didn't really agree with me. He did. His reaction was: "oh no, that's not okay, the pianos are there for anyone to play - where is he, I'll go and have a word."

There is a way to let people know they are doing something badly and shouting at children, when their life isn't in immediate danger, is not the way to do it. Adults do not have carte blanche to behave badly to children: if we expect children to behave with respect towards other people, then other people should show some respect towards children.

Exactly. But why let common sense get in the way of a good bunfight.

i dont know why thats starting at 22 mins, its supposed to be 11.18 mins in.

Another vote here that YANBU.

I agree that banging pianos is not a great idea, but all instruments go out of tune quickly outdoors, and in fact pianos tend to be very robust. If I'd been there I'd probably have asked the children to be more gentle with the piano and explained that musical instruments work best (and make the best sounds) when they're treated nicely.

I sort of wish someone had shouted back at him, "WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING? YOU NEVER SCREAM AT LITTLE KIDS." But I think you did the right thing talking to the transport police instead!

Just coming back to this thread, but I was curious about whether "bashing" the piano could damage it, so I asked my piano teacher and she said, no, it couldn't, and pointed out that a concert pianist will often "bash" the keys very hard. She said she was more worried about people who did things like balance a cup of coffee on top of the piano.

In any case, it's in a public space, isn't it? It's there for people to enjoy and have fun. It's not going to be a Steinway grand.

How bloody ignorant.

Really? Yes, all us foreigners are ignorant. How charming. I'm of an Anglophone background, have played music my whole life, used to teach, and this thread is the first time I've ever encountered 'EVERYONE KNOWS THAT BANGING ON A PIANO RUINS IT'.

So, enlighten the ignorant. Please. Where's the line? What's the difference between loud playing and banging? Is it the angle at which fingertips hit the keys? The maximum distance between finger and key during the playing process? Or is it simply volume, and the difference between playing and 'banging' comes down to the skill of the pianist?

Why raise children who can't cope with a stranger shouting? By 8 or 9 they need to know how to deal with things they find unpleasant, happening. A bit of shouting isn't harmful, unpleasant as it may be.

Banging at the piano is not playing the piano. It's showing a lack of respect for public property that's meant to be shared.

Heaven forbid anyone should upset the little darlings though. Let them completely disrespect public property so we don't upset them

All of the above with cherries on top.

Would all You posters seriously allow your children to bang on a public. well, Any Piano?

I certainly wouldn't and if I was told by them that another adult had told them off for doing so then I would be agreeing with that adult and also telling them off.

"Why raise children who can't cope with a stranger shouting?"

Can I just ask: who here copes well with being shouted at by a stranger? After all, I guess that - even on Mumsnet - nobody is perfect, and there may be times in their life when a stranger shouts at them. Do you feel happy with that?

The whole idea of those public pianos is to encourage children, and others, not to be afraid or think that music and instruments are too special for the likes of them. The people that put them there KNOW that some will be abused. They are generally pretty crap old pianos in the first place, taken from thrift shops and all because no one buys old peanos with ruined finishes and wonky keys. They arent there just so people with experience and know how can show off a bit in public, they are there for everyone to experiement with and explore. So his behaving as if he was in charge of those particular pianos was out of line and counter to the entire purpose of them being ther (as is whoever wasnt letting their own children plinky plonk on them for fear of bothering people in a public place.)

i do think the children could have been spoken to in the way Op suggested though. Or even somewhere in between his bellowing and Ops mildness. But I agree withyou OP, sounds like he was at risk of crossing over from being loud and bossy to being one of those folks that smacks a kid in righteous misplaced anger, and the transport police should have a word to remind him it is their job, not his, to deal with anyone who is behaving badly.

I think on mumsnet it seems that pretty much anything children do in public appears to be wrong, ill mannered etc. What ever about pianos , don't dare hit a football in a road... dont climb up a slide... like every child in the history of children has done etc etc....

This thread is crazy. piano left in public place for people to play, children play it, world war three.

Completely agree with Momagain - there is no need to shout at children like that unless they are deliberately trying to damage something, which they obviously weren't. So YANBU.
I bet most of the parents on here who say that children should get used to being told off by an adult, would be absolutely livid if someone shouted at their children in public.

It's not over exuberance it's bad behaviour, you would not let them do it to a baby grand in a posh hotel.....or maybe you would....the darlings

Tell that to one of mine who did indeed routinely bang the shit (sorry I'm being childish) out of one rock star style,usually at the request of the manager.

Playing the piano even badly is not bad behaviour.

But of course on here it's impossible to have an adult behave like an ogre to a child without the child being in the wrong

Jesus Christ. I read Mumsnet and I really fear what the next generation is going to grow up like. Behave however you like in public, don't bother showing any consideration for others or respect for your surroundings. But if anybody dares remonstrate with you call the police.

This is an absolutely extraordinary extrapolation from the OP. Children playing a piano in a noisy area which has been put there for them (amongst others) to play cannot possibly sensibly be equated with not bothering to show consideration for others or respect for surroundings. Even when they do so loudly.

Nor has OP once suggested that it would have been wrong to remonstrate. She is simply suggesting that it is wrong to yell at children and scream in their faces. Surely, Aermingers, you don't seriously think that that equates with simple remonstration?

Can I just ask: who here copes well with being shouted at by a stranger? After all, I guess that - even on Mumsnet - nobody is perfect, and there may be times in their life when a stranger shouts at them. Do you feel happy with that?

This. I'm pretty tough, I work in a field which sometimes involves dealing with hostile people and sometimes have to be pretty robust myself in dealing with them.

Yet when a stranger once shouted extremely aggressively and offensively at me on a train because he perceived that I should move into a non-existent space, I have to admit that (after pointing out that it would be impossible) I did, to my shame, start crying but I did keep my head well down and with any luck no-one saw. And, given that experience of dealing with hostile types in adulthood didn't prevent that, then clearly if I had spent my childhood with strangers shouting at me regularly, it wouldn't have equipped me to cope with that any better.

"Yet when a stranger once shouted extremely aggressively and offensively at me on a train because he perceived that I should move into a non-existent space, I have to admit that (after pointing out that it would be impossible) I did, to my shame, start crying."

Not surprising - that's pretty horrible.

And I frequently see posts on MN where someone is very upset because a stranger has shouted at them (for not controlling their child, or parking in the wrong space or something). Getting upset when someone shouts at you is entirely reasonable.

I have thought a lot about the qualities I'd like my DD to have, and I must admit that "being able to cope with strangers shouting at her" is not one I'd previously thought of. Another parenting fail, obviously.

Agree with everything jassy and ici have said amongst others. As a student I had a few masterclasses with a Russian concert pianist. He was a big man, and went swimming or to the gym daily, in order to achieve the strength he needed to get the huge sound out of the piano. There is no way an 8 year old is going to even get close to a similar level of strength so all the horror at potentially damaging the piano is very misplaced.

And these children were not misbehaving! Public piano, for public playing. Shock horror, kids play it!

Saoirse

I don't think it's so much that people get annoyed with children doing what children have always done. It's that so many of them now won't listen to any adult requesting them to stop, which was something we always did. Yes we climbed on walls we shouldn't be on, kicked balls up against someone's garage door, went the wrong way up the slide. But if a neighbour or another mum told us to stop, then we stopped.

Nowadays an awful lot of children ignore such requests or ramp up their annoying behaviour as 'revenge'. Also, when we were children parents supported other adults requesting a bit of peace or consideration. Nowadays many of them immediately jump to their kids' defence no matter what.

Re the OP, were these 8 year olds wandering around St Pancras unattended. Because surely that would have been more of an issue for the police than whether or not they were banging on a piano. And if they weren't unattended then surely it was up to their parents or guardians to intervene if they so wished?

Yes, they were seemingly unattended. Think their parents may have been shopping or something.

It's that so many of them now won't listen to any adult requesting them to stop

They did stop playing the piano! More's the pity.

But in this particular case, where's the justification for asking them to stop?

Thewhole point of that piano is to be played. That's what it's there for. There are no rules about how accomplished you have to be to play it, most people just have a go at chopsticks (I've done this myself).

The majority are not playing Rachmaninov (which would put more pressure on the instrument than a couple of amateur 8 year olds banging on the keys).

So, kids having some harmless fun, playing with something that's been put there expressly for that purpose. It's a real shame they stopped.

I daresay the man was acting from a misplaced sense of righteousness, but what he did was totally killjoy.

You don't randomly get to make other people's children stop doing things when they are doing nothing wrong just because you don't like it and you happen to be an adult

Couldn't agree more with the last two posts... Happy this thread has taken a more reasoned turn!

Another musician here. YANBU.

"Yes, they were seemingly unattended. Think their parents may have been shopping or something."

So two small kids were left on their own in the St Pancras Shopping Arcade? I think I'd be more concerned about that than anything else. Suppose they'd wandered off before their parents came back?

I would rather teach my children respect tbh than argue about the workings of a piano.
It is an instrument after all and belongs to somebody, even if they have temporarily donated it for public use.
My dd bangs her piano quite often through the course of her practice, but we can always tell when her pieces have required this as the piano needs tuning more often, which our very experienced tuner tells us is normal.
I would and have told dc off for banging pianos, but only when they have been asked not to.