To have reported the shouty self-appointed piano police to the actual police?

[PeppermintCrayon]

I am half-expecting to be told I'm being U for posting a thread of the "please validate this thing I already did!" variety...

Recently I was at St Pancras Station. There are several pianos for public use there. They're a bit knackered; one of them has a few keys that don't work.

Some kids were playing one of the pianos, about eight or nine maybe. They were having a fun trying to play different tunes. They were banging the keys quite hard. A man of maybe 55, 60, suddenly appeared and started yelling: "WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK YOU'RE DOING, YOU NEVER BANG A PIANO."

I went over and said I didn't think yelling at children was very nice and that these kids probably didn't have a piano at home and did he want to put them off music? He started huffing and puffing about how the pianos had to be tuned because of people messing about. I said perhaps he could have said: "Look, this is how you play a piano," and explained nicely instead of yelling. He then started yelling at me.

He then went back to sitting at a nearby cafe table glowering at anyone who went near the pianos, so I went and found a transport policeman and told him this man had been shouting at children for playing the piano and he went to have a word.

I don't think I was being U, but...

Jesus Christ. I read Mumsnet and I really fear what the next generation is going to grow up like. Behave however you like in public, don't bother showing any consideration for others or respect for your surroundings. But if anybody dares remonstrate with you call the police.

I suspect the policeman had a good giggle under his breath when he walked away. He was probably just following time honoured police tradition of placating the nutter so they go away.

susanstryingterm, I'm being ridiculous and yet people are defending someone for shouting at kids for using a piano in a public place that has been placed there for people to play. Tell them off when they are doing wrong by all means, as I have said I have done it for bullying and damaging stuff, but not for doing something perfectly reasonable. The person in the wrong is not the OP, not the kids but the grumpy old man. Personally I think it is easy to pick on a couple of 8 year olds who are doing no harm but I would like to see him if it was someone his own size. Bet he wouldn't say boo, that sort never do.

" I really fear what the next generation is going to grow up like. Behave however you like in public, don't bother showing any consideration for others or respect for your surroundings."

While I personally look forward to being able to roar abuse at small children engaging in harmless activities for semi-irrational reasons and they'll have to obey me because RESPECT and YOUNG PEOPLE THESE DAYS and GONE TO HELL IN A HANDBASKET, apparently. "STOP GOING ON THAT SWING. YOU'LL BREAK GRAVITY." "STOP WALKING ON THAT ROAD, YOU'LL MELT IT." "STOP LAUGHING IN PUBLIC, IT'S BEEN BANNED, I CAN'T BELIEVE HOW CHILDREN ARE ALLOWED TO ACT THESE DAYS, IN MY DAY THEY WERE KEPT IN SACKS, etc. etc."

Where did the OP say he was 'roaring abuse'.

He shouted angrily at some kids who were annoying him. Not ideal, but not a crime either. Rushing to the police on behalf of the kids was daft.

He was yelling at them and I expect the OP wanted the police officer to advise him that it is not appropriate to yell abuse at people in public, even 8 year olds.

What aermingers said - I'm still reading although I'm increasingly losing interest because there's just no reasoning with the 'pianos don't have brains' school of thought is there. Forget the bloody pianos because clearly you can't see past that. Let's turn the pianos into your prize roses. Some kids come along and pick all the buds off. Still happy? Course you're not. . Honestly.

But picking the roses is spoiling your display of roses, playing the piano is what they are supposed to be doing with the piano. Yes, I'm still happy.

Granny as I already asked, where did the OP say he was 'yelling abuse'.
He was yelling at kids to stop banging the piano because they'd damage it. That's not yelling abuse.

Honest to god, sleepybeanbump, what on earth do you think children with the arm strength of children who are picking out a tune (therefore not bashing with fists or doing a dragging glissando) are going to be able to do to a piano?

How is it misuse? What part of the piano mechanism exactly do you think is going to be harmed? What element of it will be destroyed (your words)?

I'm very eager to know what people actually think about this, because you all seem to have been playing pianos made of glass.

Banging at the piano is not playing the piano. It's showing a lack of respect for public property that's meant to be shared.

Err no farfromanyroad, that analogy doesn't work, because picking the buds off your prize roses would damage the roses. whereas kids "having a fun trying to play different tunes" and "banging the keys quite hard" doesn't damage a piano. Also the roses are private property whereas these pianos are there for public use. A more apt analogy would be shouting at kids for playing roughly near some roses in a park, or perhaps sniffing them in an offensively loud manner.

Even the OP thinks they were 'Banging quite hard'. So basically they were doing something which had the potential to damage something which was put there for the enjoyment of everybody. And this man told them to stop doing it. If it was my child it probably wouldn't have got to that point, but if it had I would have agreed with him and made him apologise.

It's only in this country there seems to be this odd idea that children can do what they like and anybody else should nod and smile indulgently while the little darlings damage the piano. It's interesting that the OP has no concern about the children's behaviour, but she's prepared to go running to the police If anybody says boo to them. A generation of kids seem to be brought up thinking that the world revolves around them and they deserve special privileges nobody else does.

He was yelling at kids to stop banging the piano because they'd damage it. That's not yelling abuse.

Yelling 'what the hell do you think you're doing' is the opposite of polite.

And he was almost certainly wrong about the damage. Seems to be a common misapprehension, though.

FarFrom, that's not a valid comparison because there is actual damage (removing the heads of the roses) vs the almost completely imaginary harm people on this thread seem to think would be visited upon a piano by forte playing. If your roses had a sign on them saying 'please pick the roses', then it would be a valid comparison. And you'd then be pretty churlish to shout at the children because you didn't like the way they picked the roses (and because they were smaller than you and an easy target for bullying behaviour).

Banging a piano does damage it. Normally these kinds of pianos are quite old, the strings are prone to breaking and they go out of tune very quickly if treated roughly.

Banging at the piano is not playing the piano.

At what point does loud playing become banging? How do you differentiate? Is there an objective measure?

No, sorry, banging quite hard does not damage a piano. You do know that the full name of these instruments is pianoFORTE (gentleHARD) and they were invented to be able to be played from ppp to fff (forte fortissimo - ie banging away very hard).

JassyRadlett, I agree with your post, spot on. I am going away now because the people who want to shout at kids who are playing on a piano which was left there to be played on and designed to be played are determinded that 8 year old picking out a tune in a heavy handed way are vandals won't ever change their minds. Is it any wonder kids have no respect when adults are bullies.

Banging a piano does damage it. Normally these kinds of pianos are quite old, the strings are prone to breaking and they go out of tune very quickly if treated roughly.

Again, they're in the concourse of St Pancras. The temperature fluctuations are going to be a much greater risk to the tunefulness than the impact of loud playing.

I've never met (or taught!) an 8 year old with the arm strength to hit a piano key with enough force to cause damage, even if repeated over an extended period of time - and certainly not to rival the potential (tiny) risk of damage caused by an adult playing.

Again - what's the difference between banging and loud playing, in your view? Intrigued by this. I'm foreign and horror over 'banging on the piano' seems to be a peculiarly British thing of which I've just become aware.

"Yelling 'what the hell do you think you're doing' is the opposite of polite. "

It's not yelling abuse, though. For what it's worth I think the guy really over reacted, but I think the OP's response was an even worse over reaction. Sometimes people will have a go at you unfairly, or give out to a child a bit more harshly than deserved. That's life and kids need to suck things up a bit. Constantly running to their defence or analysing their 'rights' in a situation just leads to children who can't cope with any kind of disciplining or telling off from a stranger, no matter what the situation.

Granny why are you so determined to twist things?

No poster has said that they 'want' to shout at kids playing a piano.
Some posters have said that it does children no harm to be loudly told off now and again, that banging hardly at a piano shows a lack of respect for a piece of property that's there to be shared, and that going to the police was OTT>

Intrigued by this. I'm foreign and horror over 'banging on the piano' seems to be a peculiarly British thing of which I've just become aware.

How bloody ignorant.

According to the OP, the man in question was 55 or 60.
So not "an old codger" or a "grumpy old man".

His age seems irrelevant to me, as do the negative descriptions based on how posters perceive his age.

Banging at the piano is not playing the piano. It's showing a lack of respect for public property that's meant to be shared.

This. Heaven forbid anyone should upset the little darlings though. Let them completely disrespect public property so we don't upset them.

sorry, i'm in the 'you've clearly never watched a concert pianist' camp for piano banging.

if a piano can withstand some of the fff playing of professional pianists without crumbling into dust under their fingers, they'll survive a couple of 8yo enthusiastically banging out chopsticks.

this 'you dont bang pianos' thing is very silly. You have to hit the keys, 'tickling the ivories' to play fff actually takes quite a bit of strength...

The next thing it'll be that Church organists must only play with their tippy toes instead of treading all over the foot pedals like an elephant as i have seen on some of the big cathedral organs!

I am amazed at the number of people whothink the children were vandalising or 'disrepecting' or damaging the piano in question. They were, to quote the OP "They were having a fun trying to play different tunes. They were banging the keys quite hard."

They were trying to play it, they didn't know how to play properly so were being too forceful with the keys, a bit too forte and not enough piano.

They weren't trying to bash the instrument up, you can't liken it to jumping on a violin or wrecking playground equipment as some people have tried to suggest are analogous actions.

There is a way to let people know they are doing something badly and shouting at children, when their life isn't in immediate danger, is not the way to do it. Adults do not have carte blanche to behave badly to children: if we expect children to behave with respect towards other people, then other people should show some respect towards children. Explaining not yelling in an OTT manner would be a start.

I completely agree with the OP and obviously the BTP who did go and have a word with the man. OP: YANBU