#bpressure - seriously?!!

[cantbelieveimonhere]

Don't understand where this campaign is coming from. My experience is total opposite. Am a breastfeeding mum and regularly feel looked down on/judged for it, and
stared at when feeding (discreetly)
don't think breast feeding is socially
accepted in the UK; it is bottle
feeding mums who are considered
normal (and bottle feeding in general
considered less embaressing etc)

The thing is, breastfeeding isn't something you achieve. It's akin to rolling your tongue; either you can or you can't. I was fortunate that both DCs fed easily and happily, and I didn't find it a challenge. But I'm not naive enough to imagine that's the same for every mother, nor would I judge another Mum for how she feeds. I have several friends who tried and found it didn't work for them, another friend who flatly refused, yet more friends who are like breastfeeding geniuses (genii?). Advertising of formula had no bearing on any of their decisions, they simply worked out what was right for them.

When your DCs go to Uni and are interviewed by the staff for their place, will they be asked "were you breast or bottle fed?", will they be asked that at job interviews for the rest of their lives? If not, I don't see the big hoo-ha. Feed your baby the way you find best. If it's not the same as the woman next to you, smile and keep concentrating on your own child because that's the only one you can do right by.

Re formula advertising - it's not just advertising to parents. Think about how many baby dolls come with bottles to 'feed' them. I've had a heck of a job finding books about new siblings in which they're actually breastfed.

DD was EBF and despite that still has the idea that babies have their milk from bottles.

I experienced an awful lot of pressure to stop bf.

Mainly because it's not normal in our society. Right from birth I had m/w affecting to get me formula so I could have a break from the (constant) feeding. I had dr's at my post natal check express complete disbelief that I ebf. He was convinced I must at least have given formula top ups. Family and friends were embarrassed to be seen with me, and asked all the time didn't I think it was time to stop.

Endless comments about my milk not being good/rich/plentiful enough whenever I had the smallest problem. If she didn't settle, cried...

The only ones, bless them, that didn't once mention formula were the hv and Paeds who assessed her when she dropped 2 centiles- told me if she had an issue she'd have one, and formula would possibly hinder diagnosis by masking.

The sad thing I found was every time I went to baby group, someone would lecture me on why they couldn't breastfeed. I am fully pro choice, and if someone doesn't want to, fine by me. But these women were coming out with so much misinformation, most of the time I just wanted to scream that it's completely normal, and not a reason to stop bf. Stuff like not lasting four hours between feeds, not sleeping through by six weeks, baby too big, too early, too late.

Larry, breast would not be best for my DC as I wouldn't be able to take my prescribed medication and without it I would be incapacitated, unable to care for her and possibly dead. I completely accept that breatsfeeding has potential health benefits for Mum and baby but it is not best in absolutely every case and sticking religiously to the "breast is best" message at all costs without taking into account peoples individual circumstances doesn't help anyone.

I don't know. I wanted to bf but was unable to past two weeks (those two weeks being excruciatingly painful then my milk disappeared anyway). I think there are two camps-

Those that bf and do come across as smug and wax lyrical about the natural benefits etc. Equally it comes across as snobbish in a "well I managed it so anyone should be able to nes pa?"

And those who bf, went through hell, persevered and genuinely feel proud that they overcame it.

But eitherway, I cannot, hand on heart, say that my reaction in feeling inferior is because I failed.

gingham you are right that is the complete opposite of how my experience was and the two experiences have clearly coloured our views completely. There seemed to be loads of ways of getting help with bf ing where I live including support groups, advice from midwifes and visitors as well as numbers for la Leche league etc. I did get a lot of contacts from nct too. It's a shame that no help was forthcoming since you really wanted to bf.

I failed to breastfeed (in that he was mostly formula fed) although I've managed to keep a couple of feeds a day and overnight. I was under pressure to quit (from paediatrician and health visitors) and I bowed to that pressure at 8 weeks. I think in my case it was just that I wasn't strong enough and I feel shitty about it, really bad. So for me I think there was pressure to stop breastfeeding rather than the opposite.

If I'd managed to breastfeed I'd be really proud by the way. I know some people can't and they shouldn't feel bad obviously (also if you chose not to you equally shouldn't feel bad). I actually really wanted to but wasn't good enough and I do feel bad.

I have a four month old baby daughter. She has been formula fed from day one. My choice, I did not want to breastfeed, it just wasn't for me. Incidentally, she is happy, healthy and thriving.

I can honestly say I experienced no pressure from the midwives over my choice. However, I have had negative comments from strangers in cafes (for example) when they see me formula feeding. I have friends who have experienced this too.

These comments do not make me feel guilty or regretful about my choice to formula feed. I stand by it and will do the same again if I am lucky enough to have a second child. They do, however, make me unspeakably angry. Who the hell are these people who think it is in any way acceptable to pass comment on the way a stranger has chosen to feed their child?! Is it not hard enough, being the mother of a newborn?! Women should be supporting women, ffs. I couldn't give a flying fuck about how you feed your child, any more than I care what brand of nappies you're using (Aldi, if anyone's wondering...)

Pterodactyl

Great point r.e. self-reinforcing. I didn't realise the campaign referenced in the OP was concerned specificaly with selfies of breastfeeding. I do agree that this isn't a case of individual acts by individual mothers being shaming!

I've not RTFT as I'm sure it's a full on bunfight at this point but I think both formula feeders and breast feeders feel pressure and judgement for their choices, and this is what's wrong: no women, ever, should be judged for giving their babies nourishment that is safe, appropriate for their needs and is given at a time and in a place and manner that suits the mum and the baby (even if that puts other people's noses out of joint.)

Surely if the baby is fed and loved - it doesn't matter?
I ff ds1, tried to keep bf but it was just too painful and I wasn't producing much, probably due to the pain. My HV said - the best way to a happy baby is a happy mum. Very sensible woman and helped me push past the guilt of stopping bf. We never looked back, he has thrived.
I bf ds2, came as something of a surprise we took to it so well. I never got any judgy looks or comment about how I fed ds1, but got a few about ds2! Some glares and stares, some embarassed comments from people I was sat with if we'd gone out.
I do after that more resources should be put into supporting bf rather than brow beating women. Perhaps lansinoh cream on prescription?

well said, toomuchtooold

My kids are adopted so I had to FF. I had people tut, shake their heads and comment when I fed the youngest with a bottle in public.

It gave me a real aversion to the promotion of BF, rational or not I get very angry with people who are self congratulatory about being fortunate enough to have bodies which do what they are meant to do.

Not all women, but a lot of women, work hard to overcome a lot of challenges to breastfeed grumpy. Should the fact that some people are judgy cunts mean that others shouldn't be proud of themselves for working hard to overcome obstacles and achieve something that means a lot to them personally?

A breastfeeding selfie is no more inherently ff shaming than someone posting their marathon time is inherently fat shaming.

Further to my earlier post. It's actually not so much the "I managed it so why can't you" sneer it's more the "But breastfeeding is SO much more superior/healthier/better immune etc" which only serves to heap on the guilt even further.

I actually think the beast feeding selfies are beautiful even though the ones I have seen are not selfies but taken by someone else and don't have a problem with that.
What I find difficult to view positively is when people bang on about how great they are for giving their child the best start in life, as if others can't be bothered. When at least a part of it is pure luck.

Tbh I see my breastfeeding number 2 to 3 yrs old as an achievement. I battled lip tie, over supply, thrush and mastitis gawd knows how many times. It isn't just like "rolling your tongue, either you can or you can't"...sometimes it is bloody hard work.

I'm proud that I managed to breastfeed my children. That feeling is all about me and my experience. It has nothing to do with anyone else and if you think it does that is your problem, not mine.

If your baby is fed and nourished, I personally couldn't give a stuff how they were fed.

Provisionally,

'Yes, nutritionally speaking breastfeeding offers advantages. BUT breastfeeding doesn't happen in a vacuum. Nutritionally breastfeeding may be best but it may not be the best choice for a particular parent, and it doesn't mean that their parenting is any worse - indeed, it may be better as a result of that choice. That may sound like splitting hairs but I think it's an important distinction!

(For example, take a parent who is really struggling to breastfeed, getting increasingly distressed by their failure, and a baby that isn't gaining weight or is even losing it. Breastfeeding is NOT best in that context, either for the mother or the baby - the baby isn't getting fed and the mother is unhappy, and I think happier parents are probably better parents!)'

All you say above is true. Breast is not best for every mother when all factore are taken into account. Equally some mothers don't have the time or inclination to serve a balanced home cooked meal to their children, or spend time helping them to learn (some just don't have the time). Humans are a wonderfully successful species and can adapt and be successful in many different environments and with many different types of nutrition. Everyone's parenting choices are personal and are governed by a whole host of factors. As I said above, unless a child is actually neglected, one should not criticise others' parenting choices. However, equally, that does not mean that there is not an optimal choice in the absence of other factors. It also does not mean that one cannot be proud in one's achievements as a parent, especially when one has worked hard to gain them.

There is a huge difference between being proud and showing off or worse, making other people feel like shit in order to make yourself feel better.
I suppose to give a comparison, you could think about how it feels (or would feel) to someone who's child was a late walker or talker, which could be due to additional needs / disability or not, if a person was very vocal and in your face about how wonderful their child was for being able to walk /talk by 12 months.
Or to someone who was struggling with their weight Because of a medical issue and struggles if someone who is a size 8 was leaping about in front of them wearing gym gear - telling them how hard they work to be this weight.

I suppose it's a matter of when it's common courtesy to draw the line in any sort of have/have not scenario grumpy. Eg, I can't run without crippling pain due to spd that didn't go away after pregnancy. I have no problem with a friend who ran London to Brighton, I have no problem with a formerly overweight friend who works out and is careful with her diet, both have worked hard and I like them and they are allowed to be proud of their hard work. It would be different if they were criticising me, but their pride in their accomplishments is no reflection on me.

Parenting is so challenging and all of us should harvest nuggets of pride where we can. I wanted a vaginal delivery and ended up with an emergency CS: I think women who deliver a baby through their vaginas have done an enormously impressive thing and are entitled to feel proud, without any suggestion that women who have CS have 'failed' or should feel ashamed. I think parents who instil a love of nutritious, home-cooked food in their children have pulled off something miraculous and I doff my cap to them (but if they looked down their noses at my kids' meals I'd be furious). And I think breastfeeding is A Good Thing, often physically difficult at the beginning and socially difficult at the end, and women are entitled to feel proud of it. But not to pretending that it is the sine qua non of good parenting.

Breastfeeding is promoted because it has health benefits. But, in this country, children do perfectly well on formula as well. This is a health issue, not a moral issue. It is one of many, many ways in which we can mother our children well. As I said, there are achievements you can be proud of in parenthood, and none of us are going to achieve all of them. Breastfeeding is just one of them. I would not join a campaign that suggested breastfeeding promotion has Gone Too Far because I think human beings often go too far, and behave like tossers, rather than the campaign per se. But I would certainly tell anyone to get a grip if they were implying that mothers who ff are somehow letting down their children, or that bf makes you a better mother.

I don't think breastfeeding selfies are about trying to make mum's who bottle feed feel bad. They're about trying to normalize breastfeeding, which is not socially accepted throughout the country.

I bottle fed DS1, and breastfed DS2. I never received any judgy comments or looks about bottle feeding DS1 either privately or in public. And I didn't worry about getting any, because where I live, most of the mum's I see feeding a baby in public are using a bottle. It's unusual to see a baby being breastfed outside a baby group, but babies being bottle fed are all over the place. (And regarding advertising of follow on formula - mothers may not choose to bottle feed because they've seen an advert for formula follow on milk. But it does give the impression that bottle feeding, certainly for an older baby at least, is the normal and right way to do things)

So when DS2 was born, and I decided to breastfeed, him, I worried a lot about being judged for breastfeeding him in public. I respect a mother's right to choose the feeding method that she feels is best for her and her baby, but when almost all the babies I see being fed are getting bottles, then breastfeeding in public did initially make me feel that I was doing something abnormal, or at least something that society feel should be hidden away. And the stories that crop up from time to time about breastfeeding mothers being asked to leave places or cover up reinforce the notion that some people have a problem with seeing babies breastfeed.

I've also had a lot more pressure to stop breastfeeding DS2. No one seems to give a monkey's about DS1 getting bottles until after 3.5yrs - even the dentist was unconcerned about that - but since DS2 started nearing 6 months, there's been an increasing number of comments along the lines of "are you still breastfeeding him? You should think about stopping because...."

So in my experience, it feels like there's a lot more pressure to not breastfeed, because it's far more socially acceptable and "normal" to bottle feed.

My apologies for the mix up then. Slightly sleep deprived at present due to a baby with fondness for early starts

I completely agree, sadly that awareness of self and others is not always there which is hard for the person struggling to come to terms with their loss.