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Original poster

#bpressure - seriously?!!

114 replies

cantbelieveimonhere · 29/05/2015 15:08

Don't understand where this campaign is coming from. My experience is total opposite. Am a breastfeeding mum and regularly feel looked down on/judged for it, and
stared at when feeding (discreetly)
don't think breast feeding is socially
accepted in the UK; it is bottle
feeding mums who are considered
normal (and bottle feeding in general
considered less embaressing etc)

OP posts:
mrsmugoo · 29/05/2015 16:09

Yeah I'm proud I pushed through the mastitis, cracked nipples and having to do all the nightfeeds myself to be able to give my son the milk that nature intended.

Sorry, I am.

Sorry if that offends anyone, for whatever reason.

Damnautocorrect · 29/05/2015 16:09

Oh for fucks sake.
Your feeding your child, no one else should give a shit how you do it. You bumble through by what's best for you and your family.
No one should judge you or pressure you either way.

I've bottle and breast fed and been judged for both. There is no winning!

WoonerismSpit · 29/05/2015 16:10

My hey ho was a pisstake of the post I was responding to lorgy, she said hey ho. Don't stop that from letting you stereotype though, eh?

TarkaTheOtter · 29/05/2015 16:13

Lorgy I think that was in reply to Patti's "hey ho".

yorkshapudding · 29/05/2015 16:27

I think it depends where in the country you live. I live in a naice, very middle class area where breastfeeding is very much the cultural norm. Walk into any coffee shop or family friendly restaurant and you will see women beastfeeding without covers and no one gives a shit, which is exactly how it should be. I had to stop breastfeeding to take a particular medication and I have been to several Mum and Baby groups where I was the only one with a bottle and others have felt the need to try to "educate" me (a health professional who works with children) about the benefits of breastfeeding. I have had a complete stranger approach me in the supermarket when I was purchasing formula to lecture me about the "risks" I was taking with my babies health. Women who I considered friends have treated me differently and made assumptions about the kind of Mother I am when they found out I was bottle feeding. It is certainly not the case that bottle feeding carries no stigma. I have never felt so judged for anything in my life. My SIL on the other hand lives just a forty minute drive from us and has never met anyone who breastfeeds and thinks it's "weird" and something that people used to do "in the olden days" Hmm

GloGirl · 29/05/2015 16:28

I've had 2 children and breastfed one and bottle fed the other.

I'm proud of lots of things to do with my parenting, and ashamed of other things.

I'm proud I breastfed one of them.

I am not ashamed I bottle fed the other. I can't say I was proud to bottle feed him, but I am proud that I am raising him to the very best of my ability. Some days are a struggle and I always do right by him. By both of my children.

It is unfortunate that some people who would like to breastfeed but can't for any reason, but that shouldn't stop me being proud that I did it. If I ran a marathon I'd be fucking proud of that too and not keep it quiet because there are disabled people in the population who can't.

ginghambunny · 29/05/2015 16:31

Quite frankly given that we live in a society where we are bombarded with formula advertising and BFing rates are so low, the idea that we're all under so much pressure to BF is an utter joke.

Of course the NHS are going to encourage mothers to BF - it's better for the mother, better for the baby and if all babies were BF would save the NHS millions. But I would hardly call it some overwhelming pressure. Funnily enough as somebody who wanted to BF I don't recall any pressure from any quarters (other than the personal pressure I placed upon myself to perservere through initial latching issues, which I'm glad I did.) And the brelfie trend is to try and normalise BFing, not put pressure on anybody.

It's just a campaign to make people feel better about using formula imo

ollieplimsoles · 29/05/2015 16:36

I'm expecting my first and my feeding intentions come up in most of my appointments with mws. I have told them I intend to breastfeed and would like support with it. But I get the feeling that if I said I intended to ff they would spend the rest of my pg trying to change my mind.

I see it as a personal issue, I wouldn't judge either way. If I struggled with bf and it was making me unhappy I would ff.

yorkshapudding · 29/05/2015 16:37

Gingham, are we "bombarded with formula advertising", really? Before I was in a position where i actually had to go and buy formula I could not have named a single brand. I suppose I have seen a couple of adverts for follow on milk on TV but even they have a "breast is best" type disclaimer running along the bottom of the screen just in case anyone was in any doubt. It's hardly everywhere you look is it.

BooChunky · 29/05/2015 16:40

There is so much pressure to breastfeed. It's not something I am physically able to do and this was in my notes, but still it was brought up at every appointment, and if I didn't open with the reason I couldn't breastfeed I was told that my choice to formula feed wasn't as good as breastfeeding.

I had GD and saw a nurse there quite regularly... Every single appointment she asked me if I was harvesting colostrum... And every single time I had to explain in depth why I couldn't.

A consultant actually said 'well, some people do regret choosing vanity before they knew they wanted children.' and I had to explain that my breast operation wasn't an enlargement Hmm

Obviously this is just my experience, but I really felt like my choices (though taken out of hands) were judged harshly and those who breastfed somehow thought they were better.

NinkyNonkers · 29/05/2015 16:43

As a breastfeeder I never got any filthy looks. Never managed to find any support when I needed it either...So all the talk about breast is best being pushed is just talk in my experience!

NinkyNonkers · 29/05/2015 16:46

And I am proud of the fact I established a successful bf relationship with both kids. It was fucking hard work,esp with number 2.

ginghambunny · 29/05/2015 16:49

Yorksha open your eyes. It's not just on TV or in magazines - formula ads are plastered all over bus stops, they're even on supermarket trolleys.

yorkshapudding · 29/05/2015 17:00

Gingham, isn't pretty much every kind of product advertised using those methods? It's not some big anti-breastfeeding conspiracy. I can't imagine any woman has ever thought, "well I was going to breastfeed but since I saw that advert for toddler milk at the bus stop I've changed my mind". I don't disagree that as a society we are bombarded by advertising full stop, but we are not bombarded by formula advertising in particular. They are only allowed to advertise "follow on" milks, can't offer discounts or promotions and have to run disclaimers on the adverts saying that breast is best. I'm sure there will be some who think that these restrictions aren't good enough and formula companies should be banned from advertising altogether. Because obviously bottle feeding mums must be so uneducated, impressionable and stupid that they make their feeding choices based on a TV commercial Hmm

ginghambunny · 29/05/2015 17:02

So basically you don't think that formula advertising works then?

Hahaha

yorkshapudding · 29/05/2015 17:05

I think that the assumption that the majority of bottle feeding mums have chosen not to breastfeed because they have been brainwashed by TV commercials and magazine adds for follow on milk is insulting. I also think you are being very patronising.

ProvisionallyAnxious · 29/05/2015 17:10

I don't have DC yet and I will probably try to breastfeed when/if I do, but I think there is a pressure to breastfeed, at least within the particular social / family groups I'm familiar with (as yorkshapudding puts it, people's experiences of this can vary widely). My mother-in-law was a La Leche campaigner and my DH and I had an excruciating 'discussion' with her in a coffee shop once about breastfeeding. I was trying to mildly say that breastfeeding may not always be best in ALL situations. The conversation concluded with her saying she would never try to tell us what to do, but that we should always do what was BEST for our children (by which she evidently meant breast-feeding!). For me the situation seems far more complex and what is 'best' variest between situation.

I think the fact that women DO report feeling shame and unhappiness at choosing to bottlefeed suggests that there is a discourse which judges them negatively. I don't think it's the case that in general breast-feeding mothers individually shame bottle-feeding mothers but more that a lot of the messages transmitted by, say, the NHS, and the language those messages are couched in, implies not just that breast-feeding is good, but that bottle-feeding is BAD. I think that is an issue that should be dealt with, and I don't think it runs counter to dealing with issues of improving breast-feeding support, etc.

Smileyaxolotl1 · 29/05/2015 17:13

gingham do you live in the uk? As you certainly appear to live in a different world to the one I as mother of a newborn inhabit. There is NO advertising of milk for new babies at all. It is illegal. Every bottle of formula has a warning that Breast is best . No deals are allowed on newborn formula either. And hcps do not provide it at hospital or suggest it even if your baby is screaming with hunger as you are struggling to latch.
I totally agree with this campaign. My nct group and I all tried to breastfed. We all found it incredibly difficult. 3 of us have given up within the first 5 weeks and another 3 aRe combination feeding. There is massive pressure to breast feed and we have all been in tears due to the pressure and pain of it.
In terms of the proud thing I would say if you found bf ing easy there is no reason to feel proud but If you struggled and still continued then I raise my glass to you and you should feel very proud of yourself.

TheOriginalWinkly · 29/05/2015 17:14

It's a very odd contradiction, whereby there is massive pressure to breastfeed (I always intended to, but the way they droned on and on and on antenatally made me want to tell them to fuck off and mind their own business) but no practical support, so women who want to bf and have difficulties can't. Plus going by the stats, the vast majority of babies nationally end up ff or mixed fed in the first six months so clearly the 'pressure' is ineffective. I am the only breastfeeding mother at all the local free baby groups I attend (it's more mixed at the paid for groups, and 4 out of 5 of my nct group ebf'd for 6 months. The other one wanted to but was forced to by HCPs.)

larrygrylls · 29/05/2015 17:20

It is not nice to be judgmental about others' choices. However there is good scientific evidence that, for a number of reasons, breast is best.

People should choose whatever they want and be happy with their choice but that does not mean that they are completely equivalent

ginghambunny · 29/05/2015 17:25

Yes I live in the UK. I'm fully aware that infant milk can't be advertised - I'm talking about brand advertising, which is what follow on milk was invented for. It's everywhere.

Incidentally my newborn experiences sound different to yours - DD was whisked away on day 2 to be given formula rather than me being given help with latching, which is what was actually needed. This was despite me being desperate to BF and there being no medical reason for her to be given formula. It was quicker for an understaffed ward to do that rather than give support though.

Bearfrills · 29/05/2015 17:25

I formula fed DC1 and I'm proud of it. My first baby and I managed to keep him alive when prior to that I was so crap that I killed every plant I ever owned, even the ones I remembered to look after died. So yes, huge pride that I fed my baby and kept him going, not just going but thriving.

DC2 I attempted breastfeeding but switched to mixed feeding within a week and fully to formula by eight weeks. Proud of that too. I tried it, it didn't work particularly well for any us, so I made the decision to stop. I'm proud of myself for trying and proud of myself for recognising that it wasn't right for me or for that particular baby.

DC3 has been breastfed from day one, currently 15mo and still going. I'm proud of myself for that one too, although luck (that he fed well) and stubbornness have played their parts.

I've never felt any overt pressure either way, I've had random comments and remarks but I tend not to listen to them. People will always have something to say about what others will feed their baby but so long as it's not piss or poison, who cares?

Also I didn't think Woonerism was being at all smug or dismissive of anyone, it was awful the way she was instantly jumped on by some posters for absolutely no reason.

ProvisionallyAnxious · 29/05/2015 17:26

larrygrylls

Yes, nutritionally speaking breastfeeding offers advantages. BUT breastfeeding doesn't happen in a vacuum. Nutritionally breastfeeding may be best but it may not be the best choice for a particular parent, and it doesn't mean that their parenting is any worse - indeed, it may be better as a result of that choice. That may sound like splitting hairs but I think it's an important distinction!

(For example, take a parent who is really struggling to breastfeed, getting increasingly distressed by their failure, and a baby that isn't gaining weight or is even losing it. Breastfeeding is NOT best in that context, either for the mother or the baby - the baby isn't getting fed and the mother is unhappy, and I think happier parents are probably better parents!)

BettyCatKitten · 29/05/2015 17:27

Bfeeding is bloody hard. I've had 4 dc's and only managed to bf 1 successfully.
My DT's were prem and my milk never came in properly, probably due to the stress of them being in NICU and very ill.
There are lots of reasons why some mums don't bf and it is wrong to judge them.

PterodactylTeaParty · 29/05/2015 17:28

I think the fact that women DO report feeling shame and unhappiness at choosing to bottlefeed suggests that there is a discourse which judges them negatively.

But also, the perception that there is a discourse that judges them negatively - and that most of the people doing the judging are breastfeeding mothers - becomes self-reinforcing to a degree, and you end up with a weird situation where any positive description of breastfeeding in any context ever is seen as 'pressure' and 'judging'. I think the people who feel pressured and judged by breastfeeding selfies do genuinely feel that way, but that doesn't mean that people posting those selfies actually are pressuring and judging others.