To wonder if this is fair?

[cleoteacher]

I was chatting to a friend who works for the MOD and has a 2.5 yo like me. We were talking about the high cost of childcare and she let slip how much she pays for childcare.

I was really shocked to find she pays a small amount more than me for the MOD nursery. Her dd goes there full time 8-6 and gets three meals a day whereas my ds goes 2 days a week to a childminder and gets two meals aday and she only pAys about £200 more than me.

I couldn't help myself to say what a bargain she was getting and left it at that.

But it did get me thinking whether this is fair? I am assuming the nursery is heavily funded by the government and so the tax payer. I know she is a tax payer too but can't help questioning the fairness of it.

Plus why MOD staff and not other public sector workers. The amount of substidy seems crazy and unnecessary really

Because other public sector workers aren't sent away at a moments notice!

MOD workers sometimes don't even know what country they will be in next week, let alone whether they will be at home on Saturday so their partner can take an extra shift. I cannot rely on DH for any childcare, none. If I was working DD would have to be in a nursery the entire time. Whereas people who don't work for the MOD (on the whole) can often minimise childcare fees by working opposite shifts etc (I'm not saying it's an ideal situation or that people should do it, but it's not even an option for us or DH's colleagues.)

Totally agree with pp, we as a society have been manipulated by govts and tame media into questioning every single perceived advantage somebody else may have and resenting them for it. That way, govt is free to erode our rights and benefits without the masses kicking up too much of a fuss. For example, disabled people have been portrayed as being either plucky Olympians or scroungers. You now have people moaning about disabled people parking in disabled bays if they appear able to walk a few yards, and the govt is seriously eroding the already measly benefits for the disabled. It seems it's not enough of a kicker for them to be disadvantaged compared to the able-bodied, they need to be impoverished and made to feel guilty for the pittance they get too. Well done for falling for it, OP.

I for one don't mind my taxes being used for something like this. I would like to see affordable childcare for all, especially public sector workers, most of whose pay is really not generous, and who do vital work to keep us safe/alive etc. And when it comes to the MoD I'm really not going to whinge that the subsidy (if it is indeed one, and not just a result of the nursery being non-profit-making) should be set at some arbitrary lower figure because it makes me feel better about my own situation to see others less advantaged.

Can people in private sector get childcare vouchers? The Tax free ones. Maybe that's why there's a difference?

Yes, they most definitely can get childcare vouchers. Depends if their employer is prepared to sign up for the scheme.

MO those with families on the frontline are different and they are in a high risk job so should get great perks for their sacrifices.

There are plenty of very necessary personel in the Forces who aren't on the frontline (and never do go on it) so should they not get the subsidy either? DH isn't on the frontline but he's an aircraft engineer so should an exception be made for them?

You know, everyone in the forces make massive sacrifices, I really can not emphasise just how great those sacrifices are. When they aren't "on the frontline" they aren't playing games or working 9-5 Mon Fri, it's so not like that. They are so very often away, always an exercise or course to be sent on. There's a reason why so many forces marriages end.

We don't get many "perks". If you looked at some of the houses people are expected to live in you would be horrified. People have had no heating for 3 months over the winter because there has been problems with sourcing boilers that have been condemned. Our serving members are exempt from the minimum wage, they will step in if there is a strike, or there are floods, or any other reason the government wants them. But because of the cuts the work life balance is weighted heavily towards work, it's bloody hard. Who cares about cheap childcare, you should be caring about just how high the government are shitting on our forces from!

Do you think the MOD should be running a profit-making nursery, rather than simply charging their staff the cost of supplying the service?

Interesting idea.

I hope it is subsidised. If she is willing to do those long hours on a public sector wage then she deserves this IMHO

Gunshot- I ve said several times, my friend and her Dh are not sent away at a moments notice, they don't work shifts and can to some extent dictate their own hours. My friend often says she leaving a meeting early so she can pick dd from the nursery and works from home at a moments notice. She has actually told me her and Dh have gone to the cinema during their lunch hour or in the evening and she regularly leaves early to go to a course she is attending during the week. She seems to be bake it dicTate her own hours quite a lot and no-one batters an eyelid.

Perhaps people who are Sent away at a moments notice and are on the frontline should get these perks but I am unsure if they should get quite such a massive substidy in childcare costs. They both earn £30k plus so a combined income of around £75k does seem a decent wage to me. This is around what mine and Dh combined income is a we would be very much better off if we were only paying what they are in childcare.

I am not jealous and I don't begrudge her it, I think she's extremely lucky to get it. Even though everyone seems to disagree with me I still feel such a huge substidy for all MOD staff no matter what you do is unnecessary at the tax payers expense. A little one yes as a perk but such a huge one seems too much.

Toughasoldboots, call me a liar if you will, but my reaction would be that it is great for her. I would then look into whether the nursery was any good and if so, whether they took non MoD children. Then I would also check out the jobs available at where the friend works to see if I was interested. There is no point spending any iota of a second on jealousy and foot-stamping "it's not fair!". As I said before, it doesn't have to be fair - all jobs are different and offer different remuneration packages. It's not a hard concept to grasp.

The fairy caravan- I am not talking about these people in the MOD to me that is completely separate. I am taking about people in the MOD who work five days a week 8-6 as many other people do in other jobs private or public.

You're assuming it's at the "tax payers expense". Several people have pointed out that it might just be a combination of it not having to be profit making, not having as high costs due to being on site, discount for full time and use of childcare vouchers etc etc. And perhaps a discount as part of the employment package.

You do sound very envious of your friend's lifestyle. What you've said about her long hours and pressure doesn't seem to tally with your most recent post, though.

So, you want the nursery to have a two tier price scheme, then?

FWIW, DH works alongside a lot of civilians, working for the MOD, doing exactly the same job as him. If they were there, the planes wouldn't fly, the troops would move etc, etc ......

weren't there

I know cleo, I mentioned that in my first post, but you keep generalising and saying why should any MOD staff get it.

As others have said, if you think it's unfair campaign for your workplace to provide subsidised childcare; don't try and take it away from others, most of whom need it.

I am unsure if they should get quite such a massive substidy in childcare costs.

You keep talking about 'massive subsidy'. Do you know if it is, really?

Or is it that the nursery has lower overheards - particularly accommodation costs, and that workplace nurseries attract favourable tax treatment - and that is reflected in what your friend pays?

The MOD HQ has plenty of free space post-cuts that they are unable to share with other departments in the usual way because of security.

Thank you Thefairycaravan for putting it far more logically than I am managing 5 months into deployment!

I don't begrudge her perks

Everything you've posted says you do.

You are loading all MOD staff in though, when you say they shouldn't all get such a reduced rate.

The nursery is for serving members of the forces first and foremost, then some take on a percentage of civilian families for funding reasons, and anyone who works on camp MOD or civillian has accsess to the same facilities!

Stop being spiteful, she gets what she gets, you get what you get. Our combined salary is approx 34k, maybe I should be jealous of everyone else's high wages and their job benefits but I'm not. I work 30 hours for a charity and OH is a serving member of the forces. We manage fine, I don't go around thinking life is unfair to me because I drive a silver shed and I buy my clothes from asda!!

I enjoy my life because I look at what I've got, a rewarding job and a happy family. I'm not bothered about numbers on my bank balance as long as everything breaks even and we have spare to enjoy ourselves I don't care.

Ah well, toughasoldboots, people can interpret things differently to each other. To me it seems incredibly jealous and lacking in joined up thinking as to the reasons why it's firstly making her feel jealous, and secondly, why/how her friend has got this enviable job.

Tough I did say it's not the same for everyone. But I have two friends who work for the nhs. One does 12 hour shifts, days for a few weeks, then nights. When she's on days her DH takes their DC to childcare on his way to work and picks them up on the way back. During nights she takes them to nursery and sleeps whilst they're there. We couldn't do that as I can't guarantee DH will be there overnight to look after them, or to take them to nursery during the day.
The other works 2 days a week and every other weekend. Her DS is in childcare during the week and her DH looks after him on the weekend, or it would cost more than she earns. Again we can't do that as DH isn't always there on weekends.

Obviously there are people in every sector who this is the case for, and I think childcare should be subsidised for everyone, but it's the norm for forces.

You're welcome Deaf. 5 months in is hard, you must be frazzled.

Deaf hope your holding up ok

Comparison is the thief of joy, OP.